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The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Jonathan Zoob on May 17, 2007, 12:57 pm 62.172.72.131 Isn't it time to revise Ates Orga's lengthy tribute to Joyce Hatto, written before Hattogate broke? There are parts of it that no longer stand up as accurate. It would also be interesting to know Orga's view on subsequent events, as he seems to have been one of the few people who knew Hatto. I would love to read his comments on which parts of the original article he still feels inclined to agree with. Link: http://http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Jan06/Hatto_Orga_1.htm  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by chris howell on May 17, 2007, 1:33 pm, in reply to "The real Joyce Hatto" 213.215.159.61 The Orga article is really part and parcel of the "case-history" and I hope it will always remain visible unrevised, just as the pre-scandal reviews remain in place even after the source-disc has been re-reviewed. But I do hope Orga will give us his latest reflections in a new article. There are still so many obscure points. Chris Howell  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Tony Haywood on May 17, 2007, 2:29 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 86.145.137.6 Not wishing particularly to keep the Hatto thread going, but this seems a reasonable place to mention that the only disc of 'hers' that I reviewed (mainly to see what the fuss was about) was Granados's Goyescas. This has at last been (in part)identified by Farhan Malik at Pianophiles as the playing of one Hisako Hiseki on the obscure La Ma de Guido label. It seems it's just the first three pieces that were ripped off from here (for now) and yes, I've already been on Amazon and checked the one minute extracts - even with terrible streaming quality, it's obviously the same, especially those rather masculine sniffs that litter it. Piano sound's been altered a bit, but every inflection and bit of rubato is identical, so at least now I know who I was praising...  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Don Satz on May 27, 2007, 6:37 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 76.18.78.39 My personal view is that everything on MusicWeb about the Hatto affair be placed in a "Classical Frauds" file for those to read who enjoy this type of information.  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by chris howell on May 27, 2007, 7:36 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 213.215.159.44 I doubt if the pianists whose work was ripped off would relish having their recordings reviewed at last under their own names, but only in a "classical frauds" file. Would you, in the place of Tateno, Ranki, O'Conor et al? Chris Howell  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Baron Bliss on May 29, 2007, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 81.156.22.133 I guess we all have a pretty good idea what was going on now with 'Hattogate' and Joyce Hatto recordings now carry a bad infection. Personally I feel that musicweb-international should now remove all the Hatto reviews from the site. I think that the entry in Wikipedia sums it all up, “…she was a minor British pianist…”. Hattogate is old news now, its not even funny anymore, many onlookers are bored with it and see I no point in giving Barrington-Coupe any more publicity even if its bad publicity. Barrington-Coupe even has the temerity to have his Concert Artist/Fidelio Recordings website up and running. Even the record companies and the performers that have been ripped off seem uninterested. I feel that the time has come to move on from this unfortunate business. However, I do feel sorry that many people have ‘bought into’ the Hatto phenomenon and have been influenced to buy these discs under false pretences. Some reviewers may feel that they have egg on their faces and may have been excessively buttered-up by Barrington-Coupe's clever marketing strategy but this could have happened to anyone. There by the grace of God go I.  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by chris howell on May 29, 2007, 4:54 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 213.215.159.61 All reviews, articles, bulletin postings etc on MusicWeb are clearly titled and nobody is obliged to enter those that don't interest them. Since space is not an issue, there is not the problem which exists with traditional publications that the inclusion of one thing means the exclusion of others, thereby requiring the editor to decide priorities. Personally I believe that the pianists who actually played on the fake discs deserve to have their work discussed under their own names and I hope to continue to do this for the 22 fake discs I reviewed myself. Those who don't give a damn about these pianists don't have to read any such reviews. I also think that some sort of consideration might be given one day to just how good or bad a pianist Hatto really was, or is Wikipedia henceforth to be our only authority on everything? In the end, it boils down to individual tastes about what you want to read about, but why impose such tastes on others? Personally, the larger part of the production of such composers as Malcolm Arnold, Alan Bush, Arthur Bliss or William Alwyn has little appeal for me, but I recognize that it has for some and I wouldn't dream of suggesting that reviews of their music should be banned from the site or confined to a sort of "Queer's Corner" for "those who are interested in that sort of thing". Chris Howell  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Don Satz on July 3, 2007, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 76.18.78.39 I don't know how Chris Howell gets the notion that I would want real performances by real artists placed in a "Classical Frauds" file. Just the Hatto stuff by itself. Actually, Baron Bliss has the best remedy. Delete everything attributed to this messy affair. Neither Hatto nor her husband rate any ink on this board.  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by Baron Bliss on July 18, 2007, 10:00 am, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 86.138.230.147 Re Christopher Howell's review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/July07/Debussy_Rahkonen_4509955811.htm I really cannot see the point of updating the discredited Hatto reviews especially if it is known that the disc is unavailable. There are plenty of new discs that could be reviewed instead of wasting time on this pointless crusade-like approach of Christopher Howell that seems so pointless. When will it all stop? This 'Hattogate' business must be most confusing to new visitors to the site.  Post a Response

Re: The real Joyce Hatto Posted by chris howell on July 18, 2007, 1:13 pm, in reply to "Re: The real Joyce Hatto" 213.215.159.57 Poor Margit Rahkonen ... she's had her performances pinched and now Baron Bliss finds it offensive that people should be reminded that they were very good and ought to be made available again? Aren't good performance worth knowing about for their own sake? And shouldn't people who bought the "Hatto" disc be able to know whether it fairly represents the Rahkonen performances or not? Apart from this, the re-reviews could conceivably serve as evidence in the case that the police should decide that a fraud running at least 14 years is worth their attention. And lastly, isn't it time that a stop was put to the anti-democratic attitude according to which the site should only post things that meet the favour of Baron Bloody Bliss? There are plenty of things on the site that don't interest me particularly. I just dont open them. Christopher Howell  Post a Response

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