Re: Poll Results - An Inquiry to the Moderators of NPP and NMB
Posted by Lio_Convoy on January 7, 2015, 4:30 am, in reply to "Re: Poll Results - An Inquiry to the Moderators of NPP and NMB"
I'm not defending him, and I'm familiar with the quote. Thanks for copying it here for others to read it in context, though! I honestly have no feelings towards Tom one way or another. I don't know the man personally, and I can't make any decisions about somebody I don't know. What I am bringing up is that your interpretation of the quote wasn't accurate.
Your reaction is reading between the lines. Let's look at the quote again.
"You make it sound as though a hit was put out on him or something! Iíd say probably the biggest, most concerning thing was that his origin is a stone-cold knockoff of Green Lanternís, right down to the Nova Corps."
Nowhere in that quote do I see Tom say WHY Rich was replaced. All he said was what *concerned him* the most.
Now, taking that into account, is Tom the be all and end all about whether Rich returns in some capacity to the Marvel Universe? Yes and no. He gets the final say, but as he's said many times he's not against bringing back a character if a good story presents itself. He's even said to me, you never know what the future holds, when I told him I missed RR already after the 3 issue GOTG arc was concluded. So what the other part boils down to is nobody's come up with the golden story that could return Rich yet.
In the short term, will we see Rich back? Not likely. Marvel simply doesn't have any incentive to do so. He hasn't been a money-maker for the company, and they are a business first and foremost. Could they make him a money-maker? Sure. I believe that, you believe that and so do all of the fans reading this board and this thread. In the long term, do I believe that he'll return? I've got a feeling he will.
All I was saying is the solution to his concern could easily be addressed by a single writer in a single story arc, retconning Rich's origin. And that retcon could easily solve the Black Nova origin, tie up loose ends and make for a pretty cool cosmic storyline if the right players were involved. My idea wasn't well fleshed out on here, since it was typed on a smartphone in about 5 minutes, but the gist of the idea is there. If I could alleviate the problem, come up with a decent story and answer a number of burning questions without breaking a sweat, you know any number of writers working at Marvel could do the same thing.
What you forget is it's not personal. It's a business decision. Because of your attachment to the character, you've made it personal. I love your enthusiasm for the character, and I wish everybody saw Rich in the same light that you do, but I don't believe anger, attacks, and twisting words that were said aren't the answer to getting Marvel to change its stance. Keep the passion alive, but don't ignore the reality of the situation. Rich was always a B or C-list hero. He was never got as popular as Spider-Man or Wolverine. Marvel had a soft spot for him and tried him in 4 different ongoing solo titles, many cross-overs and 3 different volumes of the New Warriors.
You keep saying that Rich never was promoted properly? Other than NW and Nova, he was in UMvsC3, a high profile game. He's also appeared in many comics over the years, whether it was a single panel or he had a larger role in the story.
Amazing Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Avengers, Bizarre Adventures, Black Panther, Cable & Deadpool, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Civil War, Damage Control, Daredevil, Darkhawk, Dr. Strange, Fantastic Four, Generation X, GOTG, Hawkeye, Incredible Hulk, Infinity Crusade, Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War, Iron Man, Moon Knight, Marvel Team-Up, Namor, New Mutants, New Thunderbolts, Night Thrasher, Quasar, ROM, She-Hulk, Silver Sable, Silver Surfer, Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man, The Thing, Thunderbolts, Venom, Web of Spider-Man, Wolverine, Wonder Man, X-Factor, X-Force, Avengers Next, Last Hero Standing, Last Planet Standing, Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Zombies, Paradise X, Universe X, What If, What The..? and many, many more I left out here.
I look at his appearances and I can count over 260 appearances prior to Annihilation, without including any Nova or New Warriors ongoing titles. When you include Annihilation, Annihilation Conquest, The Thanos Imperative, Secret Avengers, the curiosity factor from Civil War, since Speedball and the New Warriors were instrumental in bringing that about, and it was mentioned at the beginning that Rich left to go to deep space, that's a lot of promotion.
Over 260 appearances for a B or C-list superhero is that's pretty good, and especially considering that after the fall of 1981, Rich was gone until the fall of 1989, when the New Warriors appeared in Thor 411. So taking that into consideration, before Annihilation, it was about 22 years that Rich was around semi-regularily. That would make it about an average of 11.8 appearances a year, which is about one appearance a month on average outside of an ongoing series.
If Marvel couldn't make Rich more popular with that kind of exposure, then honestly, I don't know what else they could have done. He appeared in some high profile events and titles. An argument needs to be based on fact, and not opinion. The truth of the matter was Marvel did promote Rich. I remember, especially in the 1990's, you almost couldn't go anywhere without running into a Nova poster, an appearance in a comic, or a trading card with Rich on it.
They know about the passionate fanbase Rich has. So it's unlikely he's gone for good. I just think the best thing at this point is to keep a level head and try to get more people interested in Rich using a positive approach, and accepting Sam for what he is. A different character similar, but different, meant for a different audience. Yes, he replaced Rich in the MU lineup. BUT, as we've seen, Rich isn't swept under the carpet. He's been mentioned in passing on more than one occasion. He's also been back for a 3 issue arc (good or bad isn't the issue here, the real issue is they brought him back for an extended storyline). Rael Rider was just introduced, which also continues the Rider lineage (whether it's Robbie's or Rich's, that remains to be seen). They're not ignoring Rich, they're just trying something different for right now.
I wish they'd take a chance and introduce 2 titles - one with Sam and one with Rich and see what happens, but it's not in the cards right now. All I can do is hope that one day someone at Marvel will give the character (Rich) another shot.
: Here's the quote:
: What do you think Richard Rider's faults
: were that made him be the target of Marvel
: for replacement?
: You make it sound as though a hit was put
: out on him or something! Iíd say probably
: the biggest, most concerning thing was that
: his origin is a stone-cold knockoff of Green
: Lanternís, right down to the Nova Corps.
: He was asked why Marvel REPLACED (aka
: "sacked") Rider and his answer was
: that Rider was too much like GL. In your
: zeal to defend Brevoort, you mis-remember
: both this incident and all the other
: incidents of mendacity which have been
: pointed out at length on many other sites -
: including a site solely dedicated to keeping
: track of his lies and incompetence.
: If this is the standard he uses to drop
: characters, then why not drop Moon Knight
: for being too similar to Batman? Hawkeye for
: similarities to Green Arrow? Ant-Man for
: similarities to Atom. Thanos for
: similarities to Darkseid? Thor for her
: similarities to Wonder Woman? Iron Man for
: similarities to Cyborg. Avengers for
: similarities to Justice League. Gladiator
: (Kallark) for similarities to Superman
: (Clark)? etc. etc. etc.
: Defend him if you like, but remember that
: he's the one making the decisions and he,
: probably more than most others at Marvel, is
: responsible for pulling the plug on Rich.
: And he recently said Rich isn't coming back
: "any time soon." He's no friend
: of Rider Nova fans.
: --Previous Message--
: I want to clarify one thing. I read Tom's
: and I've written to him a few times and he's
: been nothing but honest with me. His answer
: about a Green Lantern wasn't about why RR
: was sacked but that he was asked what one
: thing was that worried him about RR. His
: answer was that Rich's and Hal's origins
: were too similar, with RR's being a blatant
: This doesn't mean squat and we all know it
: because a simple retcon can change that. (If
: I were working for marvel, that's what I
: would do. Bring him back through a storyline
: that involves a retcon for his origin.
: Here's one answer: The Sphinx altered Rich's
: memory of how he got his powers and
: implanted the false origin to counter the
: proper Nova training he did receive. If
: allowed to continue as A fully trained Nova
: Centurion, Rich would have been a big
: problem in Sphinx getting more powerful over
: the 7 years they've been nemesis's and the
: Sphinx wouldn't have had the power needed to
: collect the relic he needed to finally be
: able to destroy the 616 and reshape it into
: his own to rule. Though now severely
: weakened after collecting the relic, Sphinx
: begins to unravel the threads of reality and
: time (explaining once and for all the
: mystery of why people keep saying the
: timeline is broken), knowing that even with
: the Worldmind, Rich couldn't have the power
: to stop him. Not even Silver Surfer could.
: In a universe where Rich has seemingly
: disappeared for a year, Sphinx makes his
: move and many die as the universe begins to
: collapse. However, in one dark corner of the
: universe, a blue speck of light grows
: brighter as it approaches and a cosmicly
: powered (guided by the Worldmind) Nova Prime
: re-enters to wage a war that even he may or
: may not win. Though many have died, and Rich
: loses the cosmic power, the Sphinx is
: defeated, but at a cost for all of those in
: the Marvel Universe that will echo for years
: to come. The cosmic power gets stripped from
: Rich at the end as he defeats Sphinx by
: giving up the power in one giant burst of
: selflessness to save everybody. What he or
: anybody else doesn't know is that the blue
: cosmic energy isn't lost, but thrown back in
: time by the Sphinx's power, as the Sphinx is
: defeated. This blue, now Nova Corps cosmic
: energy is then... You guessed it, the
: beginning of the Black Novas.
: I would buy that. I know if there was a cool
: Marvel event like that, which gathered the
: cosmic players and the earthbound players to
: fight the relic-enhanced Sphinx.
: But regardless of my idea, Marvel doesn't
: accept submissions from people who aren't
: affiliated with them, and they're not
: looking to Bring back Rich right now, for
: better or worse. So I decided to sure my
: retcon here with you guys so you can see
: just how easy it would be to fix his origin
: and bring him back whole as a Nova Prime,
: using Bendys's mess, but fixing it and
: explaining the Black Novas. If me, someone
: who isn't on their payroll, can come up with
: it, someone who works in television and not
: comics, then I'm sure anyone there could do
: it just as easily and tie everything
: together between old and new, fixing his
: origin and sending Rich off into the Galaxy
: to rebuild the Nova Corps at the end with
: his confidence in Sam's abilities to defend
: --Previous Message--
: I see that the poll results favor
: discontinuation of active promotion of
: (acronym banned by this site) on the part of
: NMB and NPP by a factor of 2 to 1. I'm
: happy to see the headliner banner for this
: site has removed (banned acronym) - though
: the banner for each thread still contains an
: image of (banned acronym), so (banned
: acronym) is still being promoted by this
: NPP still has images of (banned acronym) in
: it's banner and still continues active
: promotion of (banned acronym).
: For those who don't know, Tom Brevoort has
: recently said that Rich was killed off
: because he was too similar to Green Lantern
: (conveniently ignoring the same similarities
: "banned acronym" also shares with
: GL) and also directly said that Rich would
: not be coming back "any time
: I don't think the message could be any
: clearer that promoting (banned acronym) will
: in no way whatsoever bring Rich back and
: will instead keep Rich gone longer.
: Fans of the one true Nova, Rich Rider, who
: still support (banned acronym) - it's past
: time to make a real choice. We need to band
: together and work to bring Rich back. That
: means stopping all active and passive
: support of (banned acronym) by all Rich
: Rider fans. Make a choice, my friends.
: Choose Rich.
: The NMB and NPP, sites originally
: established to support Rich Rider, are a
: great place to start. I urge the NMB and
: NPP to honor the results of the poll and
: support Rich Rider exclusively.
: That being said, I am not in favor of any
: ban of free speech on forum content - and am
: not at all in favor of the mere mention of
: (banned acronym) positive or negative -
: being deleted from anybody's post.
: I am simply suggesting that all
: active/passive promotion of (banned acronym)
: be removed from NPP and NMB - such as
: removal of images, removal of news promoting
: (banned acronym), and the striking of
: (banned acronym) from Nova continuity.
: Marvel may wish to re-write Nova continuity,
: but we don't have to accept it and we
: certainly shouldn't promote it actively or
: I also ask that the mods re-instate my
: access to the NMB by lifting the ban on my
: IP address.
: Respectfully Submitted for Consideration,