I proudly tell people unfamiliar with Rich that I liken Richard Rider/Nova Prime to Steve Rogers/Captain America and Kal-El/Clark Kent/Superman. He may have originally started out as Marvel's answer to DC's Hal Jordan/Green Lantern with a Peter Parker/Spider-Man twist. I admit it was the Spidey-formula that Erik Larsen used in his Nova Vol.3 run that had Nova win me over. But Rich quickly distanced himself from those magic-ina-bottle comparisions as soon as Annihilation hit. Frankly, I never saw the Nova Corps and GL Corps similarities as a problem or a joke. I was glad Marvel had a Xandar and the Nova Corps around just as much as Galador and the Spaceknights.
The way I've seen it, from Vol.2 to Vol.4: Rich didn't fail Marvel, Marvel failed Rich. Nova Vol.4 was receiving a lot of critical acclaim and Rich had never been better: he was a total major league player with the best writers writing him. Then, all of a sudden the rug was pulled right under him. It was like Worldmind had, without any warning, just stripped Rich of his powers for no real logical reason and showed him the airlock. I was like, "WTH, man?!" In all my years of regualrly collecting comics since 1984, I've never felt so angry and disappointed in a comic book company...ever. The whole thing smelled rotten and something just did not feel right.
That is why I never fully bought into Sam Alexander and the Black Novas. They were NEVER needed to begin with. There was nothing wrong with either Nova Vol.4 or GOTG Vol.2.
--Previous Message--
: Been silent here.
:
: I don't think Rider is a failed property. It
: was a fringe property that marvel never
: extended a proper effort to sink in. It gave
: a few half hearted gasps...but never the
: full effort.Fact.
:
: This could be an endless debate, one that I
: , think, is actually fairly objectively fact
: in support of my point.It's very odd to even
: think of Rider as a "failed
: Property"
:
: Rider never got any of this promo, never got
: any top creative talent in its demand prime,
: never got simultaneous cartoon support, toy
: support etc etc..
:
: In fact , he got bush whacked. I could
: unload all the facts here, but it is
: pointless. Rider was just simply not a
: failed property in the true sense. He was a
: discarded property because people never
: wanted to do the ground work to properly
: support the character.
:
: No matter what we all think...the notion
: that Rider had any faults besides a failure
: of his own company to support him and
: advertise him are problematic.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I'll answer without a poll. I don't like
: Sam.
: But there is room enough for both to cater
: to two age groups. Belittling one character
: for the sake of bringing another one up is
: close minded and infantile. We want Rich.
: There's no doubt about that. Marvel is
: trying a new experiment to see if a new
: direction could succeed where another
: failed. That makes sense. Are they promoting
: the new direction more than the old? You
: could say so because they don't want their
: property to fail and are trying to get
: people to know a new character who doesn't
: have the benefit of almost 30 years of
: backstory. People know Rich Rider. Even
: casual fans know about him. Not too many
: people who've collected comics scratch their
: heads when you say Nova. When a company
: introduced a new product, they market it
: heavily so the public knows it's out there.
: When a company has an older product they
: don't market it as heavily. That's what
: people do, rightly or wrongly. Why did Nova
: fail as a comic? Because people stopped
: buying them. Why? Obviously, it was because
: the story didn't appeal to the majority of
: people who originally were buying. You can
: see the same thing with the new Nova. Sales
: are slipping, but you also have the added
: digital buys. Say that's 5000 a month on
: average as a random guess, that still puts
: the new book out of cancellation range for a
: while. Unfortunately for us older RR fans,
: our book slipped too much and went below the
: magical 20,000 line and got put on hiatus.
: Marvel saw that NW kept failing and after 4
: failed short runs of Nova they decided to
: refresh it to see what would happen.
:
: It's not rocket science. It's just looking
: at it as what it is - a business.
:
: Could RR be returned? Sure. Easily. Is
: marvel weary of doing it? Yeah, I bet they
: are, because it's a failed property,
: multiple times over, even with great
: writing. Why don't they just bring him back
: and have him as a background character or a
: role model role to lend credibility to the
: new Nova? They probably don't want to
: undermine their new property and want
: consumers to believe they have every
: confidence in it. I'm not speaking for
: marvel and I don't have any inside
: information, I'm just using common sense.
:
: There are good ways to go about getting
: change done and bad ways. I'm not here to
: make up anyone's mind about the right way or
: wrong way, so you do what you feel you need
: to do, but know this, there's a really
: strong negative impression of all older Nova
: fans now and that stemmed from aggressive
: messages and demands like what I've seen
: here. I hate being lumped in with that group
: and I'm not that close minded. I don't like
: Sam. I've always said that. But I see his
: appeal to others. I wouldn't wish they get
: rid of him because a younger audience
: getting to know one character will create
: curiosity about another similar character
: that they might read when they're a bit more
: mature. And in this case that would be my
: favourite superhero. I want RR back as much
: as anyone here does. I just don't believe
: that rants and anger are the way to achieve
: it.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Where to begin? Let's start with all the
: "false equivalence" type
: arguments.
:
: Ko-Rel, Rhomann Dey, Robbie Rider, Irani
: Rael, Nova 0:0, etc. were all SUPPORTING
: CHARACTER type Novas in a book where Rich
: Rider was the STAR character. NONE of those
: characters were EVER meant to be PERMANENT
: REPLACEMENTS for Rider and NONE of those
: characters were given their own book as a
: REPLACEMENT for Rider's book. NONE of those
: characters has a large, defined fan base.
: And so it is with Rael Rider. She's a
: SUPPORTING CHARACTER in G3000 who likely
: won't make it out of this story arc alive -
: and even if she does, she'll just be an
: occasional guest star in a book that will be
: lucky to last for 12 issues because MARVEL
: IS GIVING IT NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. She is
: NOT meant to be a REPLACEMENT for Rich and
: she WON'T BE GIVEN HER OWN BOOK IN
: REPLACEMENT OF RICH'S BOOK.
:
: In contrast, Brevoort has clearly repeatedly
: said that (banned acronym) is a PERMANENT
: REPLACEMENT for Rich because Rich was
: "too much like GL." He's made it
: clear that (banned acronym) is the ONLY
: "Nova" concept Marvel is going to
: support, that if we don't like it then don't
: buy it, and that it's (banned acronym) or no
: "Nova" at all. (Personally, I'd
: choose no "Nova" at all over
: "banned acronym" any day because
: I'm not so desperate for a book with the
: word, "Nova," smeared across the
: cover that I'll accept the trash Marvel is
: now calling "Nova"). BTW, do you
: like Brevoort's attitude? I don't. He
: seems to think we're his employees and that
: Marvel doesn't have to work to earn our
: business.
:
: Anyway - my point is that Marvel is making
: us choose ONE star "Nova"
: character. They want it to be (banned
: acronym). I and many others want it to be
: Rich Rider. They don't care about those
: supporting characters and they are not
: planning to plop any one of those supporting
: characters in their own book come what may
: with Rich or (banned acronym). So please
: continue giving all the coverage you like to
: Ko-Rel, Rael Rider, Rhomann Dey, and any
: other SUPPORTING CHARACTER you like. I
: support and encourage it, in fact.
:
: My beef is with giving promotion to RICH'S
: PERMANENT REPLACEMENT. You can dance all
: around that issue as much as you like, but
: at the end of the day you're giving free
: advertisements for (banned acronym) every
: time you place a depiction of (banned
: acronym) up on your site, every time you
: post news of (banned acronym's) upcoming
: books, every time you adopt/defend Marvel's
: position on this issue. Free advertisements
: and publicity help sell (banned acronym's)
: books. And the sale of every (banned
: acronym) book is another shovel full of dirt
: on Rich's grave. Like it or not - there's
: no way around that.
:
: Now let's talk about the poll results.
:
: I think it's pretty clear that you didn't
: get the NMB poll results you
: wanted/expected. And the questions at both
: NMB and NPP were rigged with out clauses and
: biases which you've now exercised. I do
: think its pretty clear by reading the
: commentary in the poll thread that voters
: were responding to the "spirit" of
: the question - essentially a referendum on
: continued coverage of (banned acronym) - and
: they voted (banned acronym) out by a factor
: of more than two to one. Again I ask - if
: you were just going to ignore the wishes of
: the majority of the site visitors if they
: voted in a manner contrary to what you
: wanted/expected, why bother to ask?
:
: I challenge the NMB and the NPP to do a
: simple, non-biased/non-rigged-question,
: up-or-down vote on continued coverage of
: (banned acronym). Let's see what the fans
: really want.
:
: For those that voted here and are no doubt
: disappointed that your vote didn't really
: count for anything, take heart. I'm
: starting a couple of new fan sites. One
: site will be for Nova fan fics featuring
: Rich Rider. (Banned acronym) submissions
: will be rejected. As I've already said,
: Marvel wants to do a "Scrooge
: McDuck" treatment on Nova, but I don't
: have to accept it and I certainly won't
: promote it. In fact, I'll actively work
: against it. So, I'm starting another fan
: site to organize a boycott to drive (banned
: acronym's) sales down below cancellation
: threshold. More later when these sites
: become active.
:
: TL
:
: --Previous Message--
: Okay, my turn! Before I go into NMB‘s status
: as per the poll survey, I will first and
: foremost fully support and applaud Doug’s
: sentiments 100% when it comes to supporting
: Nova The Human Rocket and also once and for
: all cement my own credentials as a Nova fan
: since I bought my first copy of a Nova comic
: way back when I was a spotty teen in Blighty
: back in the 80’s – some 33 years ago come
: 2015. Now I may not share the same levels of
: passion that Doug has, or in comparison to
: most USA Nova fans but over the years I’ve
: come to think of Rich Rider, and all the
: other various Bucketheads that have graced
: the Marvel Multiverse as part of a grand
: tapestry that has played integral aspects in
: my creative life. If it wasn’t for getting
: Nova or any Marvel comic, it’s unlikely I’d
: made a decision to stick to staying in an
: artistic industry, let alone learning to
: draw comics at a fan level or even write
: things like Nova619. I would probably have
: been a mechanic or so other dull job yet
: here I am, years later typing a reply on a
: Nova fan site that I help run with one of
: the biggest fans of Nova that can be online
: today.
:
: Many things have happened to the Nova fan
: base over the years, and hey I freely admit
: as we all do, we’ve had major ups and downs
: that Marvel have dished out to us all – from
: putting Rich on hiatus for those dreaded
: limbo years after the end of Man Called
: Nova, his unfair treatment at the close of
: The Thanos Imperative, to the current latest
: incarnation of “Nova” who has
: single-handedly divided the existing fan
: base on many aspects while at the same time
: drawing in a plethora of new Nova fans into
: the fold, in many ways the same thing that
: happened to us “old guard” in those Golden
: Years.
:
: So back to the poll. As Doug has clarified
: regarding NPP, a decision I fully support,
: in regards to NMB, and for that matter a
: poll I conducted at Nova Prime DA (Deviant
: Art) regarding the addition of New Nova
: content and support, the key word that has
: to be noted in the original question is
: “consider” To consider is to take into
: account opinions and views, not just from
: one source but also look at the situation
: overall across the board and then decide
: whether a decision will either be a positive
: outcome or a negative outcome and how that
: affects the primary objective of a given
: site.
:
: Now to be fair feelings on the current Nova
: have been negative from the off from the old
: guard – and unlike Doug I don’t give a flark
: about him. I don’t like Sam Alexander. He’s
: too young. He’s a carbon copy of Richard
: Rider concepts made nice and sweet for the
: younger generation so there you go. BUT – in
: the end there are new fans out there that
: not only support Sam, they also taken a
: vested interest in Rich and what went
: before. I get enough proof of that when I
: get submissions for Sam and Rich art from
: the same fans at Deviant Art and when it
: came to the poll I conducted there – it was
: clear putting up barriers to deny Sam art
: would harm the integrity of the site I’d
: developed over the last 5 years of my free
: time; the same vested interest Doug has done
: so passionately with NPP.
:
: So when it came time to “consider” which way
: NMB would go, I took into account the
: massive support for NPP from fans who wished
: the site to remain online, though saddened
: that NPP got a 1/3 who preferred it offline
: for good. Whether those fans were Rich or
: Sam, I really don’t care, what matered his
: most wanted the site to stay online and more
: so they wanted it to remain integral to the
: Nova fan base. Now back to NMB, 28 votes
: wanted cessation of Sam Alexander coverage.
: Okay that’s fair, 28 had a say.
:
: Now as COSMIC BOOK NEWS would like us to do,
: they would prefer a boycott on all things
: SA. OKAY great....but WHAT they also want is
: to ensure Rider fans take time out to decry
: and defile anyone who even supports New Nova
: in any way – even to the point that those
: Rider fans who spend a lot of free time
: sharing their passion for the character by
: taking part in the worldwide Nova initiative
: that is Nova619, which features an alternate
: Rich Rider – CBN were happy to drop it. Did
: I like that decision? No. All it did was
: deprive those Rider fans who visit CBN the
: chance to read it online there. Their loss
: is NPP’s gain.
: CBN would like Rich Rider fans to boycott
: buying the New Nova book – okay that’s up to
: individual fans to do and yeah my sub
: expired ages ago.
:
: If Rider fans want to do that, they can make
: up their own decisions; Dusting Sam under
: the carpet by non publicity isn’t going to
: change anything – it’s like denying the
: existence of Matt Smith fans since Peter
: Calpaldi became the New Doctor Who – he
: might not be the new flavour all of Whodom
: wants or loves but he’s here.
:
: Added to that I share Doug’s sentiment that
: things were getting out of hand with certain
: verbal comments – and that was taking toll
: on him. It’s why I volunteered to help him
: act as Co-Mod for NMB because I have a
: no-nonsense attitude, but also I’m happy to
: ensure everyone can have a say. It’s to that
: point that I share Doug’s decision to lift
: the ban on those previously annexed from NMB
: as a gesture of good will for the start of
: 2015.
: But at the end of the day, NBM has to
: reflect the current Nova fan base just as
: any other Marvel fan sites do – it has to
: move with the times. I do thank all that
: took part in the polls – and also the other
: Nova sites out there, many of who now
: feature both fan art and fics for both new
: and old fans alike – from all the various
: multiverses. But to alienate one facet is
: not the way forward. Do we do the same to
: Rael Rider fans if we Rich Fans don’t like
: the character? Or she became the new Nova
: Prime for the 21st century 616? Nova fans,
: especially Rich fans, need to maintain their
: commitment and support for him in all
: aspects, and if you still feel strongly that
: the current direction is wrong, do comment,
: lobby Marvel collectively for a Nova Prime
: title that can exist alongside the current
: crop of Marvel Cosmic titles which remains
: my own conviction that can be done which DC
: have done for decades to the detriment of
: Marvel Cosmic devotees. In the end
: individual fans do their bit. Some may not
: like our decision, I can live with that. But
: we do what we think is okay for the fan base
: we support.
:
: So in conclusion – as per the consideration
: of the poll - NMB policy is officially
: defaulted back to neutral and will remain in
: effect for the remainder of its time online,
: a haven for ALL Nova fans to visit and use.
:
: Nuff Said. Daz/Nova3333
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: First off, thanks for restoring my IP
: address.
:
: I agree that voting with the wallet is the
: most effective way to rid us of (banned
: acronym). But continued positive promotion
: just helps (banned acronym) be more
: successful at Rich's expense. Like it or
: not - disavow it or not - that relationship
: exists even if it helps sell even just one
: more (banned acronym) book.
:
: I'm not against multiple Novas at all. In
: fact, I write fan fics featuring multiple
: Novas INCLUDING Rich Rider because I think a
: large, active, effective Nova Corps is a
: good platform upon which to build good
: stories. If Rich was around and written
: well, I'd simply ignore (banned acronym).
: But that's not the reality of the situation
: and Brevoort has made it clear that Rich
: isn't coming back because Marvel has chosen
: to support (banned acronym).
:
: FACT: Brevoort and Alonso ARE against
: multiple Novas and THEY are requiring us to
: CHOOSE. If (banned acronym) is supported,
: it just keeps Rich (and all the other Novas)
: "dead." Like it or not, that's
: the way it is. Like it or not, they are
: re-writing Nova mythos into something
: unrecognizable for no other reason than to
: try to capture a demographic that doesn't
: exist.
:
: You're right in that whatever the NPP and
: NMB do is not going to make Marvel decide
: one way or another. It is, however, an
: important symbolic gesture - a leadership
: action which could help rally the Rider Nova
: fans behind the cause to bring Rich back.
: And it would send Marvel a clear message.
:
: Your poll question at the NPP asked whether
: or not to shut the page down. It was not an
: up or down vote on (banned acronym)
: coverage. It's your page so you make the
: decisions, but I'm betting an actual
: referendum question about promotion of
: (banned acronym) would follow the same
: results as the smaller poll here at NMB.
:
: The poll at this site was an up or down
: vote. And it was worded to include both NPP
: and NMB. And (banned acronym) lost by more
: than 2 to 1. Why ask the question if the
: feedback is going to be ignored?
:
: Like it or not, for Rich to return at some
: point in the future (as in, before we're all
: dead or too old to care), (banned acronym)
: has to fail and fail miserably enough so
: that they won't just do a reboot - AND
: Marvel has to know that (banned acronym)
: failed because the Rider Nova fans wouldn't
: support it. It would be great if the two
: sites that were originally formed to support
: Rider Nova fandom and which kept the Nova
: light burning through all the dark years of
: Rich's absence would get behind the movement
: to bring Rich back by helping end (banned
: acronym).
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: I'd like to take a moment to give my
: position
: on the polls specifically how they impact
: the Nova Prime Page.
:
: The poll that was run here on NMB and the
: separate one on NPP were never meant to be
: the single decision maker for either site.
: It was a way for visitors to let their
: position be known. And that was hopefully
: understood by the posts that went with them
: - in NPP's case, on its Facebook companion
: page.
:
: And I'd like to take a few minutes to give
: some backstory on why the NPP poll was even
: started. I ran the poll on the Nova Prime
: Page because I was getting a bit run down by
: things. Having run the site for over 15
: years was part of it. Having other interests
: that are non-comic related and taking up my
: time was another. Plus a behind-the-scenes
: issue I seemed to be having with Marvel was
: irritating me a bit.
:
: However, to be completely honest, it was the
: divisive and venomous attitudes coming from
: both extreme sides of Sam fans and Rich fans
: that was bothering me the most. And I should
: point out that the NPP poll had nothing to
: do with stopping support of Sam. It was a
: poll asking if the site should shut down
: after the GotG story about Rich.
:
: Why that particular story? Because it felt
: like a natural place to shut things down if
: I chose to go that way. Plus (to again be
: honest) if the story had been a complete and
: utter disaster to me, I would have been
: inclined to shut it down just out of
: disgust.
:
: A single item would not have been enough to
: cause me to shut things down. But the
: accumulation of them all was.
:
: However, the vast majority of responses on
: the NPP poll wanted the site to continue on.
: That actually made me stop long enough to
: take a hard look at the site. The site began
: as a tribute to Rich Rider and the Nova
: universe. As that universe has expanded, the
: Nova Prime Page has tried to expand along
: with it. Multiple Nova Corps, different
: Novas, different multiverse Novas, etc.
:
: To me, Sam as Nova is no different than
: those Novas. Guardians 3000's Rael Rider
: Nova will get just as much attention from me
: as Sam does. Future stories about Rich will
: get plenty of promotion from me, too. Just
: as the GotG Original Sin story arc did.
:
: I lOVE Nova. I LOVE Rich Rider as Nova more
: than any other version of Nova out there
: (including Nova 0:0 who I thought was
: AWESOME).
:
: I like Sam Alexander. I don't necessarily
: love him though. But I do think he has
: potential and the title has gotten better.
:
: After taking a few weeks away from the site,
: I decided to continue on with NPP. And I'm
: glad I did. The site began as a fun thing to
: do for myself. It has come to mean a lot
: more and the reason is the other Nova fans
: I've come to know. You have ALL meant a lot
: to me over the years and the Nova family of
: fans continues to be important in my life.
:
: So the Nova Prime Page will continue to
: support all the Novas. I'm not arrogant
: enough to believe that if I stop supporting
: Sam Alexander Nova on the site, then Rich
: Rider will be returned to the MU. And if I
: stopped supporting the Sam title, then
: wouldn't I be obligated to stop support of
: Guardians 3000 and Rael Rider since it's not
: Rich?
:
: The only thing that will make a difference
: is voting with your wallet. The way a fan
: site is run won't matter just as comic
: reviews don't (just look at GotG's comic -
: not very good reviews for the most part but
: high sales nonetheless).
:
: Anyway, thanks everyone for reading my
: ramblings. I'll let Darren give his
: response regarding NMB as he is the
: co-moderator of the board.
:
: Bill, I went and restored your IP to the
: NMB.
:
: Doug
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
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