One of them came in in pretty rough shape, abscessed twice, looked very distant in general, I assumed it was his pain that made him withdrawn. The vet pulled his blood and immediately put him on a higher dose, he had had the same script for 5 years. With in 48 hours he was a different horse. Totally animated and social, great energy. He has great hooves now and is very stable. His meds being the right dosage brought him back to life.
One was on 1 mg when he arrived, but we had to increase him to 1.5 mg due to hair growing longer in a couple of spots.
The second one was a hairy bear when she arrived so we started her on 1 mg of Pergolide. I didn't notice any differences in her personality (she is pretty laid back anyway) and I didn't see any changes in her coat until she shed out this Spring. She went from a long, dry and brittle coat to a short, beautiful, shiny penny.
I haven't seen any side effects at all in either one so hopefully your guy will come through with flying colors too.
Lori Finch Owner & Manager of Paradise Acres Equine Retirement. www.paradiseacres.net
First thing I saw was my horse quit eating. I had to take him off the pergolide, then slowly bring him back up .25 mg at a time. He stopped eating anything except hay and grass after that. Then, he developed anhydrosis. Because he had a wobbly, disconnected walk, I only hand walked him for exercise. It felt like dragging a dead horse around for several months (pergolide "veil"). He finally started perking up in the fall once I was able to get him to start eating a few supplements. He became more susceptible to heavy wormload, and small immune attacks (allergies, hives). I attribute ALL of this to the Cushing's, NOT the pergolide. His feet were still a bit tender during the seasonal rise in the fall, but he started to "wake up" again by then from the pergolide veil. In the winter, I started adding glutamine to try and bring back some of the condition he'd lost. He had some minimal effect, but not a lot. After a year and a half, he was fairly stable, shedding almost normally, and back to sweating again, but still had no topline and very little condition, however his feet seemed not to trouble him anymore. This past year, his dosage was raised from 1 mg to 1.2 mg and his condition is returning. I had to move him to a friend's ranch three hours away, so I haven't seen him lately, but the report I get is that he is now able to gallop up and down hill and collect himself, and his topline is coming back. Seems he needed just that little bit extra pergolide to start to normalize again. Hopefuly, I will get to visit him soon, so I can know more about how he's doing and compare to how he was the last time I saw him, or at the same time as a year before. I'm even hopeful he might be rideable again.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
is supposed to be on 1 mg for now until we get him retested. Vet thought it was no problem to give him the full dose right away, but I was aware of the veil and thought I play it safe and start with 0.25 a day for three days and then move slowly up to the full dose..... I hope to be able to prevent the whole not eating thing this way.... He's never been a heavy sweater, so I hope I would notice if he stopped completely...still has his topline and sheds fairly normal, he just seems stiffer and less willing to move than he had been (according to vet and shoer not laminitic, though!). Do you think the Pergolide might help with that? How old is your guy? Mine will be 24 this August.
Thanks for your detailed info! I keep my fingers crossed for you that you can ride him again
Re: My gelding
Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/10/2012, 8:03 pm, in reply to "My gelding" 66.245.46.208
Your horse may also just be dealing with issues from being an older horse, too. Maybe his stiffness is just old, arthritic joints? Some chondroitin might help him.
My guy was just 16 when he developed Cushing's. He just turned 19, which is why I'm hoping he can go back to riding one day. If not, it's not a tragedy. He lives in a wonderful place and gets very good care.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
You're probably right,
Posted by Stranger in Paradise on 5/11/2012, 10:25 am, in reply to "Re: My gelding" 72.14.90.94
that it's just age related arthritis. But then I don't know what to expect from the Pergolide at all, except to keep the status quo and to maybe prevent possible future laminitis episodes.
Your horse was quite young when he was diagnosed! How did you figure out, that it might be Cushing's? Usually they don't test younger horses and even with my much older guy, I had to ask the vet to run the test, because he doesn't "look" like it.
Re: You're probably right,
Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/11/2012, 2:46 pm, in reply to "You're probably right," 64.134.234.28
He eventually ended up with all the clinical signs, including weight loss (he was always an easy keeper), bulging fat pads over the eyes, disconnected, wobbly walking, lethargy, long, wavy hair coat, loss of topline and general condition, pot belly and chronic low grade laminitis. I documented each one of these signs as they occurred, scratching my head over each one, until the bulging fat pads, followed by the hair made it very plain to me. I had been treating him as IR for most of this time until his weight loss got dramatic. When I added a little grain to his pellets just to get him to eat them, the IR signs got worse. So I stopped the grain, but he continued to decline until the fat pads and hair finally clued me in. This took place over a period of two years. The initial signs were the weight loss and overall lethargy.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
I have 2 horses on Pergolide. Neither horse had any side affects.
Horse #1 only needs it August - March (15 years now, diagnosed at age 10 when he foundered). Mostly that horse needs his carb intake managed. He is sound and ridden regularly now.
Horse #2 gets 2mg year round. His veracious appetite and water intake and excessive peeing got under control within a week on Pergolide. HIs weight stabilized over a month. He was diagnosed at age 22. He is retired, pasture sound (ringbone/arthritis) and happy as a clam. He walks/trots/canters around - slowly now, but he is totally mobile.
as the main indicator that you are controlling the PPID, but of course the MOST important part of treatment is to control the cortisol production and hormone cycling... if you keep a steady high state of cortisol/which is what happens with cushings, causing the visual effects, then you are at EXTREMELY high risk for infections, and lack of ability to handle or react to stress... the immune system goes bonkers... and the stress hormones can't cycle and make things better internally, so just say, a farrier visit, may push them into a huge spiral of internal derangement and end in a severe colic. also, don't forget that laminitis comes in many forms... low grade often presents as stumbling, and often comes more recognizable when the horse is 'on and off sore' or 'won't move out' any more... and also those often present with late winter 'abcesses' which are just the recovery state from a more severe laminitis attack, with inflammation that has to exit the hoof some how. full blown severe laminitis attack causes the stance, and heat, and pulses... but lesser amounts cause subtle symptoms, and only the most severe cause rotation... or founder. the laminitis risk is huge, and is only addressed by the COMBO of diet and drugs... the diagnosis is first key, with ACTH you can accurately dose the pergolide... Diet is number two.... most if not all PPID horses will develop IR at some point. so, low sugar diet asap, and forever. no grass, not even 'a bite' no treats, no carrots or apples... no commercial feeds... etc. Trim is crutial, to keep those feet healthy... Exercise fends off many of the symptoms that come along with PPID such as muscle wasting and 'touch me nots' and always, there are reassessments to make sure it's all working well cause they do change as they age!!!
I've been getting reports that my horse has pretty much slicked out and getting black and dapply like he always used to. I'm supposed to get pics soon. I miss my boy!
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
My granddaughters 30 year old Appy/crosys mare began the Prascend (1 tab daily) about 3 months ago. She had the most atrocious long dull coat you have ever seen. She also had major topline issues. It took about 5 weeks before she began to really shed out but once she began it came out in handfulls. Now she has the most lovely slick coat and her topline has really improved greatly. As for side effects we have not had one. As a matter of fact, I believe it has increased her appetite quite a bit and has put a sparkle in her eyes again. As for the other mare, Parade, it has only helped her to shed. She has lost all will to live, but that is not cushings related. I REALLY like the Prascend it dissolves immediately and is very easy to feed. While more expensive, Loomis gives me a discounted rate when I purchase a 90 day supply at a time.($180.00)
Placerville CA
I'm very glad to hear that there are horses on Pergolide for many years without any side effects. After all, I hope my horse will live another 10 years at least ...
So far he seems fine after the first few days on the drug.
I've been reading a lot on the yahoo cushings group site, too. Have been a member for a few years, after he was diagnosed with IR, but not Cushing's. So his mineral balanced low sugar/low starch diet w/tested grass hay had been in place for quite a while. I guess it was just a matter of time when he would be Cushing's as well and as mentioned before, he doesn't yet show the obvious signs of long hair coat, pot belly and loss of topline, except for his crest which he had all his life!
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