BAEN Message Board

Bucker Update

Posted by rosalita208 on 5/12/2012, 8:57 pm

So our little bucker has a chiro treatment on Monday, by Tracey Rainwaters. She made some adjustments, and said to give him two days of layoff and then start him out walking and trotting the third day. She said it was fine to put him back out in pasture as it was nothing severe. Meanwhile I did some of the follow the feel ground work with him, which he did very nicely.

In the saddle after the time allotted he walked well enough. But this time when I asked nicely for a TROT the little guy kicked out! He has NEVER refused to trot as far as I know. He did this repeatedly and consistently, after a couple very light and easy asks. I am sorry, but this is dangerous and simply not acceptable behavior.

So back in the round pen we went...with me in the saddle, and another person on the ground, and every time I asked for a trot or a canter if he kicked out the person on the ground would drive him forward. I believe we are going to have to do this a few more times to get him to simply accept the cues.

My belief at this point is for whatever reason he is simply refusing to take the cue, and kicks out in order to put an end to what is being asked of him. I kick out, all the work stops. The "softer" I have been to him over the past week the more he perceives me as someone he can be the alpha to, and at this rate pretty soon he'll be kicking out just standing there when I just get on him. At some point in his career he must have gotten someone off, as he seems to think that is a good thing to try, so he really does need to be driven through what I believe is primarily mental stickiness. I realize he could "anticipate" pain if he had some pain prior, but nonetheless, we have to decidely put an end to this kicking out and refusal on his part by working on the forward impulsion. I don't see what other option there is with this one.

We will continue with the massages and chiro and so on, but somewhere along the line this horse seems to have got some ideas in his head that are not going to serve him well if he is going to live in the world with people, as a riding horse. I don't think horses who try to throw people off come to a very good end in this world. So in addition to all the physical feel good work, I am going to keep going down this road to change his mind about the choices he is making.

My belief is that it is time for Gail Ivey

Posted by elliemae1 on 5/12/2012, 10:35 pm, in reply to "Bucker Update"
98.233.34.161

to see this horse in person.
Before you get in more trouble, dangerous trouble, call Gail, pay her fee, and get her out there.

He is out on some mental plane and is screaming for understanding.

No, I do not receive kickbacks from Gail.
Illegetimi non carborundum.

Re: My belief is that it is time for Gail Ivey

Posted by rosalita208 on 5/12/2012, 10:55 pm, in reply to "My belief is that it is time for Gail Ivey"

He's not my horse. I can't tell them who to have train this horse. I'm just the exercise rider. Believe me I am doing everything possible to understand this horse. I don't know why people on this message board think a horse will never refuse, that it is crying out for help... Don't horses refuse jumps in competitions, even the best and most athletic horses, ridden by the best riders in the world? I am not saying I am the best rider in the world. I am not by any means, but I do think horses refuse sometimes. He is a young green horse. Is it impossible that he is testing the rider? That he decided he doesn't much like this business of riding and wants to chuck it? If that's his decision, and he's going to become a terrible, dangerous problem then what do we owe a horse like that? Does that possibility that the horse is refusing because he just doesn't want to do what you ask even exist in this perfect world we all envision, of harmony with horses? Gail said to ride him at the trot and slowly work him up to the canter. Well I've had a complete regression to even worse behavior now. I don't blame anyone, every horse is different and as everyone says its impossible to judge without being there. That said, I have to say he did start taking the cues better and without throwing a leg with someone driving him on the ground. That just took some of the pressure off me as I wasn't really up for some big deal today.I was just planning to walk him, trot him a little and put him away. He turned it into a bigger deal than that, not me. I'm really sympathetic to this little guy, but he's got to at least try. I can reward a try. I can't reward not trying at all. Sometimes horses see and feel monsters that are not there. They are real enough to the horse I am sure. My mustang is afraid of a certain picnic table that we walk past on the trail. The table is certainly not going to hurt him. Nothing has ever caused him pain in the vicinity of the table. Yet he is very jumpy going past it. So is it wrong for me to keep urging my mustang past that table, and to make him stand beside it, so he realizes it's not going to eat him? Even if he doesn't like it? To make him understand that he can trust my opinion, sometimes more than his own? Of course not. Over time, slowly he is starting to realize it is nothing to be that concerned about.
One thing I could do with this guy is change the location of where we are working to see if he just associates that arena with bad or anxious feelings. Maybe he has come to associate me with negative feelings of whatever kind. So I'll also have someone else ride him to see how they go with him. So I will try all that next. But he also has to try.

Over think much?

Posted by Jimmy on 5/12/2012, 11:13 pm, in reply to "Re: My belief is that it is time for Gail Ivey"
75.210.72.253

Oh for heavens sake. Shut up, slap his ass and go ride somewhere!

Re: Over think much?

Posted by rosalita208 on 5/12/2012, 11:18 pm, in reply to " Over think much?"
67.160.239.2

Yes, Jimmy, I think that's pretty much where we are at to a large extent.

Yep

Posted by Annie on 5/14/2012, 11:09 am, in reply to "Re: Over think much?"
168.71.218.3

getter done.
A good ranch horse will side pass to the truck bed and stand quielty while you open the ice chest and grab a beer.

Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?

Posted by wildhorse on 5/13/2012, 11:19 am, in reply to " Over think much?"

Why don't you go over and do it for her since you seem to think it's an easy fix. Kind of dangerous advice to give someone over the computer if you haven't seen the horse and how hard he bucks and haven't seen her and assessed her riding level don't ya think?

Re: Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?

Posted by Jimmy on 5/13/2012, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?"
75.210.72.253

I would be happy to.
That's my point. Everyone is trying to train over a chat board, and it's always the same advice. More ground work, more vet work,chiro, message, teeth, feet, meditation, platitudes ad nausea. But a person needs to actually be able to ride this horse.
Is There risk? Of course there is, but risk that is weighed against years of experience. Not someone catch riding someone else poorly trained horse, the owner putting that person in the spot to become horse trainer. Amateurs training amatuers horses.

Is there really a reason to

Posted by pjc on 5/13/2012, 5:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?"

bash people looking for answers? If one thing worked for all horses and all people, all horses would be perfect. Have you been following this discussion or are you responding to this single post?

Support lawn order. Grow neat grass.
Sunnyvale, CA

LOL, that was my original point!

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/13/2012, 8:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?"
66.245.46.208

You said it in a way I don't think I would have, though, since I think most folks are only trying to give the poor gal what she wanted in the first place.

But, if anyone recalls, I was loathe to point out any specific exercises without seeing the situation firsthand and making sure all that other stuff was ruled out for the benefit of the horse. When I did offer one, it wasn't appropriate for her situation which she found out.

It also sounds like she might be reading the situation fairly well and ought to trust her own judgment. Or she could trust a pro like you or me to come out and see if there is a better way. That's her judgment, too.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Clap...clap!

Posted by firejax1 on 5/13/2012, 10:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?"
76.21.52.112

Great post!
I bust mine...so I can kick yours!!

Ditto that! nm

Posted by Jane on 5/14/2012, 7:10 am, in reply to "Clap...clap!"
99.197.32.57

Aren't you the guy that complains

Posted by pjc on 5/14/2012, 8:13 am, in reply to "Re: Jimmy, Why don't you go do it for her?"
71.146.147.12

about having to 'dumb down' the horses you train so that the owners can ride?
Support lawn order. Grow neat grass.
Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Aren't you the guy that complains

Posted by Jimmy on 5/14/2012, 3:28 pm, in reply to "Aren't you the guy that complains"
75.210.216.175

I don't recall ever complaining about that. But horses get dumbed down for people all the time. They are even bred that way in some cases.

Over thinking plus under trained trainer

Posted by elliemae1 on 5/13/2012, 4:50 pm, in reply to " Over think much?"

If not Gail, then someone who is qualified.

Not your horse? Then stay off him until he's trained, or you're trained, or both.
Big liabilities looming here for all parties, but I fear the horse is the biggest loser.

This is not the way to "fix" a horse.

Advice on a chat board is only as good as the adviser AND the receiver.

Illegetimi non carborundum.

She has stated that she is

Posted by pjc on 5/13/2012, 5:46 pm, in reply to "Over thinking plus under trained trainer"

the exercise person, not a trainer. She is working with other horses. She is looking for answers. She is obviously a pretty good rider because she hasn't been dumped during the incidents. Her questions and the answers or suggestions that have been posted have been informative for a lot of people. I think it is a good thing to have a place to ask questions and sort through suggestions. Discouraging that kind of exchange is counterproductive. She has already kind of indicated that she is a thinker, not the kind that will just take any advice and run with it. I think she has also been working with the owner. They may both come to the conclusion that after eliminating all the obvious possibilities that the next step is a consultation with a trainer or a tune up. I would hope that on this board we could support the initiative to look for answers. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and sometimes they don't fit, but we need to keep asking and discussing.

Support lawn order. Grow neat grass.
Sunnyvale, CA

Posted by jumps for joy on 5/14/2012, 7:36 am, in reply to "She has stated that she is"

Your story about the table reminds me

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/13/2012, 8:36 pm, in reply to "Re: My belief is that it is time for Gail Ivey"
66.245.46.208

of how a friend of mine likes to explain such situations.

It's not about the table. It's about the feelings the horse carries around inside of him by the time he sees the table.

Let's say you were at home alone at night during a storm. There's a big flash of lightning and the power goes out. You're in the dark, in a storm, and then you hear something banging against the back door. You get a little wide-eyed until you remember that loose shutter. But as you make your way in the dark to the door, the phone rings, which makes you jump. When you pick it up, you hear nothing but breathing. You hang up the phone and turn to head back to your bedroom, and in the dark, narrowly miss stepping on the dog. As the dog jumps out of the way, your thigh brushes against the hall table. You scream and jump back. It's just the same table you pass by every day, but everything that led up to that moment made you jump out of your skin in terror by the time you accidentally touched it.

The horse is no different. He cannot separate his actions from his emotions. How many times have you seen or known a horse that could pass by something in the pasture every day without even looking at it, but you can't ride him past it without him eyeballing it, or snorting at it, or even shying his way past it. It has nothing to do with that THING, it's about how he feels before he got there!

Any horse can jump when he's surprised, and some horses are just more sensitive than others, but the more time you put into showing a horse how YOU can present to him something that is going to feel good to him. Bucking in response to a request isn't about the request, it's about how he felt inside before the person requested it, and how he's learned to make it stop.

Will you be successful in just pushing him on through it every time in getting him to where he feels good about the canter? If all he lacks is clarity, then maybe you can. A horse can get good feelings just by having the clarity delivered, even if it takes him a few miserable times of feeling rotten first before he understands it.

It's also possible to have him be obedient and conform without willingness, and a lot of people are completely happy with that, too. As you said, it's not up to you to determine what trainer the owner is going to work with, although, apparently, they believe you are the trainer in this situation, or else why are you riding him instead of the owner(s)?

So, I see you in a tough situation, really. The best you can do is offer what you've already offered, and deal with it as you think you should. There's no harm at all in retiring from the job of exercise rider if the horse becomes dangerous. Then it puts the problem squarely into the lap of the owner, where it belongs, instead of on you.

Also, you misunderstood the exercise I gave you, which doesn't really surprise me because I wasn't sure I was describing it accurately enough. But you found out something about the horse by trying something different. He pushed back even harder against the whole going forward idea. I'd bet this horse is either heavy on his forehand and pushes on the bit, or has been ridden in a pretty severe bit at some point and tries to stay off the bit with worry in him about what happens when those reins come into his life. It could also be he's just been spoiled and confused, and just needs clarity. Again, it's too dang hard to tell what's appropriate without seeing the situation firsthand.

Keep on trying!! This is a great learning process for you, even if nothing said on this message board helps at all.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Does this horse ever get out

Posted by MilkMaid on 5/13/2012, 8:11 am, in reply to "Bucker Update"
67.142.177.27

on a trail, and just allowed to relax, where maybe you're miles from the barn, out in the wilderness, you get off and just let him graze for awhile. Out on the trail, where he can just be a horse with you on him, not asking him to do anything but walk down a road? I don't know this guys story, but is he burned out from 'schooling' in an arena, and maybe is rebelling from that?
Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

Re: Bucker Update - Ulcers?

Posted by Drafted on 5/13/2012, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Bucker Update"

I wonder if it could be ulcers? Check out this video that describes an easy way to check for ulcers.

Cheers,
Sandi

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4&feature=plcp

Bucker Update - Sunday Success!

Posted by rosalita208 on 5/13/2012, 7:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Bucker Update - Ulcers?"

So today was a beautiful day. Going on the theory that either the horse had come to associate me with bad things, or the arena with bad things we did some experiments. First, I did some focusing ground work with the horse. He did great at that and did pay attention and listen and put his focus on me very nicely.
Then a friend of mine, an expert rider, took the horse in the arena. Asked for a trot, kicked out a little, when urged on he trotted fine. Horse was lightly reprimanded every time he threw a leg going into the trot or while trotting. Shake of the reins, leg pressure, nothing harsh. I was watching and the horse did not seem in pain. His demeanor and expression said "not my favorite thing to do, do I have to." When the answer was yes, he complied, somewhat begrudingly. Went up to the canter, cantering in a group with other horses. Kicked out a little first time asked, then did nicely, going with the group.

Then I rode him out on the trail, and asked for trot, canter and gallop. He did everything perfectly as asked, on the trail. He went at the pace I requested, and accelerated or slowed when requested. No complaints - ie tail swishing or head shaking, etc. The ride was about 1 1/2 hours long with plenty of up and down hills so it was a little workout. My friend rode behind and watched the horse to see if he showed any signs of discomfort. My friend said, "that horse looked as if he was enjoying himself the whole time, and relieved that he was out here where he wants to be." I felt the same way. The horse was light and responsive and listened and we were real partners on the trail.

So my conclusion is this horse LOVES THE TRAIL. The trail is where he wants to be. He does not like the arena, or arena exercises. So the plan is we will continue working him primarily on the trail, to give him good experiences. And also work him lightly in the arena using the same cues we use on trail and push him gently through his refusals there. Not make a big deal out of it when he refuses just keep asking him and driving him forward calmly until he does it. This horse was originally raised in Texas. He was probably trained to be a ranch horse, and just loves being out in the big open spaces. Where we ride there are cattle, and he also seemed to enjoy "checking" on "his" cows.

So this has been a real learning experience for me, all around, going through this process of elimination to try and find what makes this horse happy as well as identify the source of his unhappiness. This is a real story of the guess your best kind of thing we all go through when dealing with horses. Not a video where if you do a certain three things everything is perfect all around. The funny thing for me is I was "afraid" to take him out on trail because he was not behaving very well in the arena. So for me I was a little nervous with that part of the experiment, as I have always felt the horse had to be really solid in the arena first. But in this case that was the wrong presumption. HE IS A TRAIL PRO.

And thank you everyone for all your thoughts and feedback and advice. I do feel better knowing he had the chiro work, and we will get him a massage and one more chiro session, just to tune him up real well. The follow a feel and focus is helpful, I believe, in getting him oriented at the beginning before a ride. I do want to know that the horse feels good physically and mentally, which he certainly seemed like he did today out on the trail. So being able to share and get advice and even argue a bit with everyone's comments was great for me. Thank you all and yay for the horse!

Yay! Kudos to you for

Posted by pjc on 5/13/2012, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Bucker Update - Sunday"
71.146.149.61

sticking with it and finding that 'as little as you need and as much as it takes' point. Good learning exercise! Glad you found a place where you are both comfortable.
Support lawn order. Grow neat grass.
Sunnyvale, CA

Yay for you!

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/13/2012, 8:38 pm, in reply to "Bucker Update - Sunday Success!"
66.245.46.208

Sounds like you found something that works.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Thank you, Gail

Posted by rosalita208 on 5/13/2012, 10:34 pm, in reply to "Yay for you!"

Thank you Gail. All of your comments were really helpful and I appreciate it. You reminded me to be observant and pay attention to the horse and see if we could read his point of view better. Not make assumptions, pay attention to the horse, and keep trying things to eliminate possibilities and see how he reacts.
I feel like at least now we have a way to meet this guy, where he is coming from. He's uncomfortable in the arena, doesn't like it, for whatever reason. Maybe arena patterns are awkward to him physically because it's more turns and bending in circles, or maybe mentally he just doesn't see the point of it. Or who knows maybe he had a bad experience doing arena work at some point in his unknown past history.
My mustang used to hate the arena work, because he found it boring and what is the point? Now he likes it, because he gets to go "play games" with his buddies. So it took him awhile to see it that way. In the arena I try to let him go in a group, and then pull him away from the group from time to time so he is also following the rider, with or without the others. Joining back up with the others is his reward.
So with this guy the trail will be the reward and he'll have to develop more acceptance of the other over time.
One of the reasons I do this exercise riding is to get to know more horses and learn more by experience. So it's not that the people at the ranch are forcing me to do it or would set me up to ride a horse that they think would hurt me. I volunteer and they know I want to learn. This one has been a good challenge for me. They would not let me ride a horse beyond what I could handle. If it started going that way, believe me, they'd take me off the horse and put it to a person with more skills. There are horses in training there that I do not ride for that reason. They need a higher level rider. This horse has been out of my comfort zone, but that's how you learn. I've gone over the ideas for making progress on this guy with the owners throughout the process, as they are mentors also. And I think that's the only way to really learn with horses, with coaching and help from people, then having the experience. What's great about this message board is you can get lots of different perspectives.

I said it before

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/13/2012, 11:59 pm, in reply to "Thank you, Gail"
66.245.46.208

You have such a great attitude that I don't think you'll have any trouble working out this horse's issues, plus other horses you may run across.
Good for you!
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Re:

Posted by Tori on 5/14/2012, 7:47 am, in reply to "Thank you, Gail"
75.107.4.188

I wouldn't want to be stuck in the arena either. I can remember a time where riding was defined by an arena, it sure is nice to get out of that mindset.
loosen up your budgie smugglers
http://snowyridge.blogspot.com
Front Range, Colorado

yep, even I get bored in the arena

Posted by KellyW on 5/14/2012, 9:47 am, in reply to "Re: "
206.81.103.17

I try not to spend more than 20-30 minutes in there when exercising my horse.....
Napa, California

YUP---SAME with Moonie

Posted by KDPRookard on 5/14/2012, 10:16 am, in reply to "yep, even I get bored in the arena"
144.160.130.16

He likes to mosey on down the trail cuz to him, it's not like 'work'. Put him in the arena, and he's very reluctant to do what you want. No kick or buck, just kinda like "do I HAVE to... pleeeeeeeease don't make me..." Right Sara!
1 husband, 2 cats, new house, no horse... for now.
K.D., Newman, CA

Back when I was doing the serious show thing

Posted by Sunny on 5/14/2012, 2:10 pm, in reply to "Thank you, Gail"
24.113.27.183

I did almost ALL riding on trails. You can practice anything you want out there and the horse will enjoy it more than endless drills in the arena....

I don't do endless drills anyway. Once a horse learns to respond to my cues, it really doesn't need to be drilled on things....They know what they are supposed to do and if we ask them lightly, kindly and consistently, they will do it every time, even if that have not been ridden in a year..... the thing the riding does for them is strenghten them physically so thay can do the things we ask.... I wouldn't take a 4th level dressage horse out of the field and ask them to do that kind of work....it wouldn't be fair....but you can get them fit to do the work without ever stepping into an arena, and then ask for it and they will perform.

I HATE seeing horses go round and round for hours every day......get em out, let them enjoy life!

Recently I was at a fancy barn

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/15/2012, 9:06 am, in reply to "Back when I was doing the serious show thing"
66.245.46.208

Where some "dressage" horses were put in a Eurocizer with heads trapped into sidereins and the machine set to a working trot. I didn't see anyone around to supervise them. One horse was obviously getting tired and sore, tried to slow down, got bumped, jumped forward with a buck, did it again, and again. I felt so bad for those horses.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Re: Recently I was at a fancy barn

Posted by BarbaraC on 5/15/2012, 10:39 am, in reply to "Recently I was at a fancy barn"
148.87.19.194

Seriously...and those horses' owners wonder why their expensive imported warmbloods act up when actually being ridden...
Gateway to Almaden Valley/Southwest San Jose
Saving one dog's life may not make a difference, but it makes all the difference in the world to that one dog.

I have only one thing to say about that....

Posted by Sunny on 5/15/2012, 11:32 am, in reply to "Recently I was at a fancy barn"
24.113.27.183

That's seriously messed up....

Posted by Tauna on 5/15/2012, 11:41 am, in reply to "Recently I was at a fancy barn"
63.249.97.149

I have moments where I'm ashamed to be part of the human race.
Santa Cruz Mountains, Ben Lomond
http://ironfreehrs.com/

Just want to say

Posted by SH on 5/15/2012, 1:56 pm, in reply to "Recently I was at a fancy barn"
209.118.177.189

A horse should never be in side reins in a eurociser unsupervised. That is insanely unsafe and no dressage rider that I know would do such a thing.

Like all disciplines, dressage has good and bad. It's not bad to be at a fancy facility (many times I wish my barn was a bit nicer!), it makes me sad that people have such stereo types about dressage people. Most of us are just working away, trying to learn.

I may not take my horse on the trails as often as others, but I assure you that I don't drill my horse either.

Re: Just want to say

Posted by Gail Ivey on 5/15/2012, 5:26 pm, in reply to "Just want to say"
66.245.46.208

There was no stereotyping going on. It was a fancy barn and they were dressage horses. Just facts.

I stood and watched them go at full working trot in those side reins for five minutes without a break. It was still going when I left.

I'm sure glad no one you know would do that, because I don't think I would want to know someone who would!
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." -
Socrates

Re: Just want to say

Posted by Tori on 5/16/2012, 5:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Just want to say"
75.107.4.188

I visited a fancy WP barn where there were a number of horses in an arena tacked up with their heads tied around. One mare was tied to a tractor tire in the middle and repeatedly setting back. They were sorta supervised since there were a couple of riders loping around in what would be considered a rollkur headset. Interesting to see what goes on at different places. Client spent a lot of bucks to keep their horses triple blanketed in that 80 degree barn.
loosen up your budgie smugglers
http://snowyridge.blogspot.com
Front Range, Colorado

Re: Just want to say

Posted by BarbaraC on 5/16/2012, 9:02 am, in reply to "Just want to say"
148.87.19.210

That's funny that you would think they were dressage horses. I have seen fancy jumpers trussed up that way and ran around in the round pen for at least 20 minutes before anyone would even think of getting on them. And, that's what came to mind with this OP.

So, it's not really directed at any one discipline, just a sad way all around, that ANY horse should have to go through that.

At least you ride your horses. How many 'dressage barns' have you been at where the trainer is the only one that rides the horse, because the owner is afraid to?
Gateway to Almaden Valley/Southwest San Jose
Saving one dog's life may not make a difference, but it makes all the difference in the world to that one dog.

I have a TWH

Posted by Sunny on 5/16/2012, 6:59 pm, in reply to "Just want to say"
24.113.27.183

and people generalize about all kinds of things they do to Walkers. I would never do anything like it and nobody I know would do it, but it does happen... probably the same for you and dressage. I used to show dressage a long time ago and the people I rode with did not do that stuff, but it does happen....as you say, there are good and bad... And before that when I showed on the AQHA circuit there were people doing horrible stuff to the horses in the name of winning... I didn't and the people I hung out with did not, but it happened.... I think the point is in every equine discipline, there are people who do things that aren't very nice in order to win... it's not a generalization about dressage people it's a generalization about people that are more interested in ribbons than that welfare of the horse.....

and the endless drilling applies to any discipline as well...

For me, trail riding works, doesn't have to be the same for everyone..... some people don't have the opportunity for it, others don't like it or don't feel safe....no big deal...you can still ride your horse without overdrilling, which sounds like your approach. That's great! I don't equate all arena riding to being overdrilled, but I certainly have seen a lot of overdrilling in my life....

how sad.....that is just disgusting....

Posted by Fancy That on 5/22/2012, 1:35 pm, in reply to "Recently I was at a fancy barn"
144.49.131.1

I feel so bad for that horse, too. Poor thing - I wonder what he is thinking. It seems torturous and so "un-feeling"......
Equine & Pet Portrait Artist
http://www.elainehickman.com
***Morgans Do It All***
Gilroy, CA
============================

I would find a qualified trainer ASAP

Posted by horsielover on 5/14/2012, 11:26 am, in reply to "Bucker Update"
173.213.192.130

I got my young horse back from training and he was a gem. Slowly he began getting cranky when asked for a faster gate. He never bucked but I am sure it would have gotten to that. I took him back to the trainer for a lesson and realized it was me who needed to change. I wasn't a strong enough leader and was being challenged. The trainer really helped me to identify when he was getting cranky. We would stop it long before it got to the point it did with me. He is a dream now because we worked through it. A qualified trainer will help you identify when he is getting out of hand. I am sure he is giving you a ton of signals before the bucking starts.

Re: Bucker Update

Posted by LakotaSioux on 5/24/2012, 8:48 pm, in reply to "Bucker Update"
166.250.32.20

This horse should go to a trainer and have the owner work with the trainer. You on the other hand, since you are just exercising this horse and do not own him, should seek another horse to exercise until the horse has been with a trainer for about 60 days or so.

Personally I would put this horse in a good-sized round pen with a snaffle and when asked for a trot and the horse kicks out, I would roll the horse over his hocks into the fence and urge him to trot off in the other direction, make him go for a couple of steps, walk him around and then ask for the trot again. Keep your distance away from the fence, so the horse does not come into contact with the fence and do this every time he kicks out when asked to go into a different gait. He'll learn pretty quick that you mean business, if in fact this is a horse that is testing you and not a horse that has health issues.

Too many people let their horses get away with things like this and quit when something like this happens, which reinforces their bad behavior. Make it difficult for him to misbehave and he'll figure out real quick what he should be doing instead of what he is doing. Be prepared if in fact he does like to buck, that when he starts to duck his head to gather for a buck, to urge him on and keep his feet moving. Don't let him get too fast on you since you could loose control over him at a faster gait.

Like I stated earlier though, sounds like this horse needs to be with a competent trainer for awhile.

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