A subject I don't know much about & curious to know effective ways to handle horses that cow-kick on ground, not while riding. Assuming pain issues are not present (i know, big assumption), saddle fit is okay and horse has been desensitized. Any good personal results or online resources (youtube or articles)?
Re: Cowkicking
Posted by Gail Ivey on 8/6/2012, 3:42 pm, in reply to "Cowkicking " 66.245.46.208
What would cause the horse to kick? Remove the cause of the kicking. Usually, the horse kicks because he's trying to get something away from him that troubles him. Show the horse he has nothing to be troubled about, and he won't have a reason to kick.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
example
Posted by krj on 8/6/2012, 4:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Cowkicking " 50.0.92.102
At the hitch rail, horse might offer a slow motion (testing?) cow-kick when going to pick a back hoof or saddling, but not always. Sometimes a real kick is offered. Level of expression seems to vary on different days with different handlers (all seem fairly experienced & handle it slow/kind).
Re: example
Posted by BarbaraC on 8/6/2012, 6:22 pm, in reply to "example" 148.87.19.214
If many different people are handling and picking out his feet, maybe some are not so adept at doing the job, and he objects. My old Arab is very particular about his back feet, and does not like to have his leg stretched waaaay back.
My guy can sense if the person knows what they are doing or not, and he is happiest around people that know what they are doing.
I don't have much advice, but for my guy, it was always a good idea to put a hand on his rump, and slowly run it down his leg before asking him to lift it. This got him 'ready' for the idea of lifting. (I always stand next to his hip, facing the back while doing this, trying to stay out of range of 'cow kicking.')
Saddling, same deal. If the horse is smart, or sensitive, then maybe too many different people and styles of saddling.
Can you observe from afar while different people are handling him to see if there are subtle differences?
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Re: example
Posted by krj on 8/7/2012, 6:50 am, in reply to "Re: example" 50.0.92.102
Thanks & yes about the safety points!
Re: example
Posted by Gail Ivey on 8/6/2012, 8:05 pm, in reply to "example" 66.245.46.208
So, your answer is in the "but not always." What is different in him the times he does not try to kick vs when he does? What does his expression look like when he's not trying to kick, vs when he does? What is the situation going on around him? Are there other horses nearby? Does he usually kick out with the same hind foot? Does he try it just once or twice, then give up? Whatever his thoughts are, it is not something he feels so troubling that it overwhelms his thoughts, so it's more a lack of clarity, most likely.
I tend not to "do" anything with horses while they are tied up. I tie them up to have them stay where they are while I go do something somewhere else. When I do something with the horse, he's not tied up. Sometimes, just having that little bit of freedom removed from them puts them on the defensive, especially if they've got some issue with being tied, or being around some other horses, or some history of having things done to them by force.
The important thing is that you notice the expression. If you know what the expression looks like on the days when the horse tries to kick, then don't have the person do something that will bring out the kicking. Instead, have the person do something that will change the expression to what it looks like on the days he doesn't try to kick. It might just be something simple, like taking a step back and then forward again, or move a little sideways, or maybe just untying the horse and backing up a few steps. Redirect his thinking! If his expression says, "If you go back there, I'm thinking of taking a swipe at you," then why would you go back there? Believe him! Tell him, "Now, you don't need to feel like that. You could be pretty successful at doing something else here and forget about that other idea."
Usually when I hear of a horse kicking out like that, it's because someone is moving too fast and the horse is feeling pressured by that. In this case, it might be they're moving too slow, and he's thinking there's something wrong and it might be worrying him a bit. I couldn't tell for sure unless I saw it, but I've seen that happen before.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." - Socrates
Re: example
Posted by krj on 8/7/2012, 7:43 am, in reply to "Re: example"
I've observed her 4 times, and the cow kicking is mainly on back left. She tends to behave better just by handler showing they have a crop in hand.
I like the suggestion of moving her about & redirecting energy. She has some really great belly itching spots to reward with.
Re: example
Posted by Tori on 8/7/2012, 11:54 am, in reply to "Re: example" 75.107.5.244
huh, if somebody always approached me with a crop and an intention to teach me a lesson, I would be cranky too. Making the experience pleasant for her is going to go a long way, rubbing her belly if she likes that is fine so that she doesn't anticipate conflict whenever her feet are involved. Shifting her weight off the foot you want to pick up before picking it up and making sure she is standing balanced to be able to hold it comfortably will solve most problems.
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going back
Posted by krj on 8/7/2012, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Re: example" 50.0.92.102
I do appreciate the input.
As Gail noted, it is hard to tell unless seeing the behavior. Hope to go back to my original question of good personal results or online resources (youtube or articles), and not specifics of this horse. My fault for including more & leading it in another direction. BTW, I've only seen this horse handled with kindness (no one popping her with a crop!).
Re: Cowkicking
Posted by sierraserafino on 8/7/2012, 6:28 pm, in reply to "Cowkicking " 76.247.180.101
My horse cowkicked once it was amazing she was undersaddle and we were lined up really close with other horses.. and I didn't see or feel it coming got the horse next to her....amazing how they can kick so fast sideways...
having read through kjr posts
Posted by mary bluepony on 8/9/2012, 5:02 pm, in reply to "Cowkicking "
horse is spoiled and threatening. that is what the 'waving' the foot around while not kicking is about.
AND people are threatening the horse with the crop . . .
so we have 2 wrongs definitley don't make a right!
Whoever answered with proper way to pick up foot (rubbing hand on rump, down leg before pick up is heading the right way.)
It has become crystal clear to me over the past many years that people have issues with horses becuase they are no longer properly instructed in horsemanship. start with the most basic of basics, correct haltering, leading, picking up feet etc.
Before we can expect a horse to behave properly WE must KNOW how to interact with the horse correctly. DIY is not the way to learn about horses and watching videos or going to clinics which fast forward to getting on the horse leaves out the most important steps.
sadly in an awful lot of cases people have a horse that is not suitable for their level of ability and want to 'fix' a problem beyond thier ability which results in injury and/or more fear for person or horse.
the horse CAN NOT be allowed to threaten or intimidate people but the person HAS to learn how to read and lead the horse into good habits.