Posted by Franck on May 20, 2012, 12:20 pm 82.245.124.174
Dear Boffer, Thank you so much again for your big summary. I have bought the book and I will receive it in a few days. I wanted to give my impression with some photos but unfortunately my photobucket doesn’t work today. (I have a message your private policy update, agree and continue and it doesn’t work) (I don’t know if you saved the panel of Nellie a few years ago concerning Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother’s diamond collets necklaces : it was an excellent summary) 1° Concerning the diamond collets necklaces owned by Queen Elizabeth II I think she owns : - The coronation necklace - Queen Alexandra’s diamond collets necklace - The Duchess of Teck’s necklace (1) (Might be worn with the Greville tiara before 1953 : a photo on the panel) - The Queen Elizabeth’s coronation diamond necklace (2) - A second collets necklace bequeathed to her by Queen Mary (It might be the other one worn by Queen Elizabeth II with the Vladmir Tiara in New Zealand and in Oman last year) - The diamond collets necklace given to Queen Elizabeth as Duchess of York with he scroll tiara (3) - An other diamond necklace worn by Queen Elizabeth II before she has queen (Unfortunately I can’t send you a photo) - Queen Elizabeth wore an other diamond collets with the coronation necklace for her coronation in 1937 (This diamond collets had smaller diamond necklace). For the coronation of her daughter Queen Elizabeth the Queen mother might have worn n° 1 - 2- 3. Can you confirm the case? For the rest of her life Queen Elizabeth the Queen mother wore only two diamond necklaces. I thinkit was n°3 and n°2. 2° You say that Queen Mary owned 8 diamond collets necklaces at the end of her life, thus : - 2 were given to Queen Elizabeth II (Not to much to my mind) - One was given to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother - One was given to Princesss Margaret Therefore, what happened to the other ones ? I was always strucked by diamond collets necklaces worn by Queen Mary with the Delhi durbar tiara for the Belguim state visit in 1922. I think that the big one can be the coronation necklace and the other the Duchess of Teck’s necklace. What do you think about it ? (Sad I can’t send a photo) 3° I made a summary a jewels that they didn’t speak to : - The Queen Alexandra’s huge coronation diamond necklace - The Teck’s diamond and pearl choker. - The diamond collets necklace with diamond fringe worn by Queen Mary with the Cullinan ring and the William IV brooch - The queen mary’s filigree tiara worn in the 50’s - The Lozenge diamond and pearl tiara from Queen Mary - The diamond on band - The laurel leaves tiara from by QM - The diamond pendant worn by QM - The diamond and pearl stomacher from QM. She had this stomacher at the end of her life. Thus I think this stomacher is with QEII. - The double greek key tiara - The diamond necklaces received by Queen Elizabeth II during her reign. 4° In article it is said the Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother had more than 60 jewels from Miss Greville. Perhaps she received the double greek key tiara from her. She might have received also the a emerald and diamond tiara. 5° Diamond necklaces received by QM to QEII : - The Cullinan diamond necklace with a pendant - 2 diamond collets necklaces (3 with the one from QE the QM)(Not to much to my mind) - The Queen Mary’s Love Trophy collar - The Queen Mary’s diamond sautoir - The Queen Mary’s Chain linked bracelets/choker - The Queen Mary’s fringe linked bracelets/choker bequeathed to QE the QM - The Teck circle necklace (was on the contray lost by QEII bequeathed by QE the QM to PM) Thank you so much again for you summary,
Franck
Re: To Boffer
Posted by Boffer on May 21, 2012, 11:08 am, in reply to "To Boffer "
Franck; in regards to the points and questions you have given, I can only answer from the information that has been made available, I do not like to speculate much; without hard facts and information to base my inferences on.
- I can only list the collect necklaces now owned by the Queen which we know about and were listed in various sections of Munn's book: 1) The Coronation Necklace 2) The Duchess of Teck's Collect Necklace 3) Queen Alexandra's Collet Necklace 4) Queen Elizabeth's Collet Necklace (loaned to the Duchess of Cornwall) 5) A second collet necklace left to her by Queen Mary (My speculation would be, owing to Queen Mary's desire to keep historically important pieces in the family, that this second necklace was the collet necklace given to her by Edward and Alexandra on the anniversary of Eddy's death, which was intended to be their wedding present to her).
- I have never seen a picture of the Queen wear a collet necklace prior to her accession, I have never seen any mention of her receiving one.
- I have also no information regarding the collet necklaces worn by Queen Elizabeth when Duchess of York.
- For the 1937 coronation, Queen Elizabeth wore the The Coronation Necklace (without the drop) and her own Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace.
- For the coronation of her daughter in 1953; Queen Elizabeth wore her Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. The Duchess of Teck's Collet Necklace (and another necklace, which has not been identified and thus I would not like to speculate).
- As for Queen Mary's recorded eight collet necklaces it is clear that 2 went to the Queen (Queen Alexandra's Collet Necklace and a second collet necklace); at least one went to Queen Elizabeth (the Duchess of Teck's Collet Necklace); one went to Princess Margaret (a necklace that had been bequeathed to Queen Mary by Lady Mount Stephen, subsequently sold at Auction). My guess is that the other ones could have gone to the Kent and Gloucester branches, as they own various collet necklaces, but this is pure speculation, not fact, the truth is we do not know how Queen Mary's various jewels were dispersed (unless we could gain access to her inventory). But Roberts did state that the vast proportion of it was bequeathed to the Queen.
- In regards to the Greville bequest, again not much is known, other than the Jewels that have appeared in Roberts' publication it is widely unclear which jewels belonged to Mrs Greville. All that is mentioned is that the bequest consisted of around 60 pieces. There is an extensive inventory of the collection, which was made just before it was transferred into Queen Elizabeth's possession; however this has never been made public and is now in the Royal Archives.
- Again, as far of necklaces and jewels that belong to the Queen now, that have come from Queen Mary, it is unclear to be sure. We can only speculate, if it is not mentioned explicitly in all the various literature. The only way to be sure would be to go through Queen Mary's inventory; or the present Queen's inventory, but these are sadly not available to the public.
I hope this has addressed the majority of queries above. I apologies if I cannot be more helpful; but I do like to deal in cold-hard facts and thus can only recite which we have learnt from Roberts.
--Previous Message-- : Dear Boffer, : Thank you so much again for your big : summary. I have bought the book and I will : receive it in a few days. : I wanted to give my impression with some : photos but unfortunately my photobucket : doesn’t work today. (I have a message your : private policy update, agree and continue : and it doesn’t work) : (I don’t know if you saved the panel of : Nellie a few years ago concerning Queen : Elizabeth the Queen Mother’s diamond collets : necklaces : it was an excellent summary) : 1° Concerning the diamond collets necklaces : owned by Queen Elizabeth II I think she owns : : : - The coronation necklace : - Queen Alexandra’s diamond collets necklace : - The Duchess of Teck’s necklace (1) (Might : be worn with the Greville tiara before 1953 : : a photo on the panel) : - The Queen Elizabeth’s coronation diamond : necklace (2) : - A second collets necklace bequeathed to : her by Queen Mary (It might be the other one : worn by Queen Elizabeth II with the Vladmir : Tiara in New Zealand and in Oman last year) : - The diamond collets necklace given to : Queen Elizabeth as Duchess of York with he : scroll tiara (3) : - An other diamond necklace worn by Queen : Elizabeth II before she has queen : (Unfortunately I can’t send you a photo) : - Queen Elizabeth wore an other diamond : collets with the coronation necklace for her : coronation in 1937 (This diamond collets had : smaller diamond necklace). : For the coronation of her daughter Queen : Elizabeth the Queen mother might have worn : n° 1 - 2- 3. Can you confirm the case? : For the rest of her life Queen Elizabeth the : Queen mother wore only two diamond : necklaces. I thinkit was n°3 and n°2. : 2° You say that Queen Mary owned 8 diamond : collets necklaces at the end of her life, : thus : : - 2 were given to Queen Elizabeth II (Not to : much to my mind) : - One was given to Queen Elizabeth the Queen : Mother : - One was given to Princesss Margaret : Therefore, what happened to the other ones ? : I was always strucked by diamond collets : necklaces worn by Queen Mary with the Delhi : durbar tiara for the Belguim state visit in : 1922. I think that the big one can be the : coronation necklace and the other the : Duchess of Teck’s necklace. What do you : think about it ? (Sad I can’t send a photo) : 3° I made a summary a jewels that they : didn’t speak to : : - The Queen Alexandra’s huge coronation : diamond necklace : - The Teck’s diamond and pearl choker. : - The diamond collets necklace with diamond : fringe worn by Queen Mary with the Cullinan : ring and the William IV brooch : - The queen mary’s filigree tiara worn in : the 50’s : - The Lozenge diamond and pearl tiara from : Queen Mary : - The diamond on band : - The laurel leaves tiara from by QM : - The diamond pendant worn by QM : - The diamond and pearl stomacher from QM. : She had this stomacher at the end of her : life. Thus I think this stomacher is with : QEII. : - The double greek key tiara : - The diamond necklaces received by Queen : Elizabeth II during her reign. : 4° In article it is said the Queen Elizabeth : the Queen Mother had more than 60 jewels : from Miss Greville. Perhaps she received the : double greek key tiara from her. She might : have received also the a emerald and diamond : tiara. : 5° Diamond necklaces received by QM to QEII : : : - The Cullinan diamond necklace with a : pendant : - 2 diamond collets necklaces (3 with the : one from QE the QM)(Not to much to my mind) : - The Queen Mary’s Love Trophy collar : - The Queen Mary’s diamond sautoir : - The Queen Mary’s Chain linked : bracelets/choker : - The Queen Mary’s fringe linked : bracelets/choker bequeathed to QE the QM : - The Teck circle necklace (was on the : contray lost by QEII bequeathed by QE the QM : to PM) : Thank you so much again for you summary, : : Franck : :
4 necklaces at 1937 coronation
Posted by Nellie on May 21, 2012, 7:06 pm, in reply to "Re: To Boffer " 202.161.26.2
To clarify just one matter, here are pics that show Queen Elizabeth clearly wearing four necklaces - 2 diamond, 2 pearl.
I studied this last year because I could not resolve if Queen Elizabeth wore her coronation gift necklace, from the King, in the Abbey and on the balcony, because the stones up towards the shoulder seemed to be too small. As it has now been shortened I assume the smallest have now been removed.
Abbey, Balcony, Palace
For Franck
Posted by Nellie on May 21, 2012, 7:14 pm, in reply to "To Boffer " 202.161.26.2
This is the panel I made last year for diamond rivières worn by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother but I don't think I ever finished that project.
Just for comparison - the QE coronation necklace as it used to be shown in the e-gallery of the Royal Collection, and a good pic of Queen Elizabeth which I think is from a Wilding portrait.
Also the bodice ornament looks to me to be the central piece of the cockade.
Re: For Franck
Posted by Boffer on May 22, 2012, 12:10 am, in reply to "For Franck" 86.146.68.16
Many thanks for posting these Nellie, I must have missed them first time. My belief, now that we have more information on Queen Elizabeth's jewels, is that, what she is wearing in these images, is as follows:
A) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and her own Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
B) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York. (Also worn: 'Queen Elizabeth's Halo Tiara')
C) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and her own Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings and The Greville Bow Brooch)
D) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace', and 'The Duchess of Teck's Collet Necklace'. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
E) 'The Coronation Necklace' (Queen Victoria's Collet), and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: 'The Coronation Earrings')
F) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the drop pendant). (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
G) 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the drop pendant), and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: 'The Coronation Earrings', and 'Queen Adelaide's Brooch' worn at her shoulder)
H) 'The Coronation Necklace', and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
All of these pieces are featured in Roberts, other than the collet necklace she received as Duchess of York; which I have never found any mention of.
--Previous Message-- : : This is the panel I made last year for : diamond rivières worn by Queen Elizabeth the : Queen Mother but I don't think I ever : finished that project. : : : :
Some diamond rivieres worn by Queen Elizabeth (QM)
Posted by Nellie on May 22, 2012, 1:32 am, in reply to "Re: For Franck" 202.161.26.2
Thanks Boffer. Hope you don't mind but I'm putting your text (in italics) together with my pic for easier cross checking.
All of these pieces are featured in Roberts, other than the collet necklace she received as Duchess of York; which I have never found any mention of. A) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and her own Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
B) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York. (Also worn: 'Queen Elizabeth's Halo Tiara')
C) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and her own Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings and The Greville Bow Brooch)
D) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace', and 'The Duchess of Teck's Collet Necklace'. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
E) 'The Coronation Necklace' (Queen Victoria's Collet), and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: 'The Coronation Earrings')
F) The collet necklace she received as Duchess of York, and 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the drop pendant). (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
G) 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the drop pendant), and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: 'The Coronation Earrings', and 'Queen Adelaide's Brooch' worn at her shoulder)
H) 'The Coronation Necklace', and her own 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also worn: The Greville Earrings)
Re: Some diamond rivieres worn by Queen Elizabeth (QM)
I will post a longer message at the end of the day.
Boffer, seen the photo of the diamond necklace worn by Queen Elizabeth II as a princess. (She has worn this necklace several times)
Franck
--Previous Message-- : : Thanks Boffer. Hope you don't mind but I'm : putting your text (in italics) together : with my pic for easier cross checking. : : All of these pieces are featured in : Roberts, other than the collet necklace she : received as Duchess of York; which I have : never found any mention of. : A) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and her own Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: : The Greville Earrings) : : B) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York. (Also worn: 'Queen : Elizabeth's Halo Tiara') : : C) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and her own Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: : The Greville Earrings and The Greville Bow : Brooch) : : D) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, her own 'Queen Elizabeth's : Coronation Necklace', and 'The Duchess of : Teck's Collet Necklace'. : (Also worn: The Greville Earrings) : : : : E) 'The Coronation Necklace' (Queen : Victoria's Collet), and her own 'Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also : worn: 'The Coronation Earrings') : : F) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and 'The Coronation : Necklace' (without the drop pendant). (Also : worn: The Greville Earrings) : : G) 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the : drop pendant), and her own 'Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also : worn: 'The Coronation Earrings', and 'Queen : Adelaide's Brooch' worn at her shoulder) : : H) 'The Coronation Necklace', and her own : 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. : (Also worn: The Greville Earrings) : :
the other brooch QEQM is wearing is that the William IV or is the one QM wore in the picture at the bottom of page 51 of Fields book copyrighted 1987, under that says 1997 edition. PJ
--Previous Message-- : : Just for comparison - the QE coronation : necklace as it used to be shown in the : e-gallery of the Royal Collection, and a : good pic of Queen Elizabeth which I think is : from a Wilding portrait. : : Also the bodice ornament looks to me to be : the central piece of the cockade. : : : : : PJ Kiser, Salem, OR
Re: Some diamond rivieres worn by Queen Elizabeth (QM)
Thanks for the narrative (Boffer) and the panels (Nellie). Does anyone have a better picture of the brooch QEQM is wearing in picture C? PJ
--Previous Message-- : : Thanks Boffer. Hope you don't mind but I'm : putting your text (in italics) together : with my pic for easier cross checking. : : All of these pieces are featured in : Roberts, other than the collet necklace she : received as Duchess of York; which I have : never found any mention of. : A) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and her own Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: : The Greville Earrings) : : B) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York. (Also worn: 'Queen : Elizabeth's Halo Tiara') : : C) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and her own Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace. (Also worn: : The Greville Earrings and The Greville Bow : Brooch) : : D) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, her own 'Queen Elizabeth's : Coronation Necklace', and 'The Duchess of : Teck's Collet Necklace'. : (Also worn: The Greville Earrings) : : : : E) 'The Coronation Necklace' (Queen : Victoria's Collet), and her own 'Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also : worn: 'The Coronation Earrings') : : F) The collet necklace she received as : Duchess of York, and 'The Coronation : Necklace' (without the drop pendant). (Also : worn: The Greville Earrings) : : G) 'The Coronation Necklace' (without the : drop pendant), and her own 'Queen : Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. (Also : worn: 'The Coronation Earrings', and 'Queen : Adelaide's Brooch' worn at her shoulder) : : H) 'The Coronation Necklace', and her own : 'Queen Elizabeth's Coronation Necklace'. : (Also worn: The Greville Earrings) : : PJ Kiser, Salem, OR
The other brooch is now known as Queen Adelaide's brooch (in the QD) and was labelled the William IV in Field.
--Previous Message-- : the other brooch QEQM is wearing is that the : William IV or is the one QM wore in the : picture at the bottom of page 51 of Fields : book copyrighted 1987, under that says 1997 : edition. : PJ :
Re: Some diamond rivieres worn by Queen Elizabeth (QM)
--Previous Message-- : : The other brooch is now known as Queen : Adelaide's brooch (in the QD) and was : labelled the William IV in Field. : : : --Previous Message-- : the other brooch QEQM is wearing is that the : William IV or is the one QM wore in the : picture at the bottom of page 51 of Fields : book copyrighted 1987, under that says 1997 : edition. : PJ : : : : PJ Kiser, Salem, OR
Well, I will call it Queen Adelaide's brooch in future because Roberts does. I expect the Royal Collection will be using that name in any exhibition where the brooch might appear, and online. We will get used to the change I suppose.
--Previous Message-- : So what do you all call it. : PJ : : --Previous Message-- : : The other brooch is now known as Queen : Adelaide's brooch (in the QD) and was : labelled the William IV in Field. : : : --Previous Message-- : the other brooch QEQM is wearing is that the : William IV or is the one QM wore in the : picture at the bottom of page 51 of Fields : book copyrighted 1987, under that says 1997 : edition. : PJ : : : : : :
