Posted by Dawn on June 28, 2012, 2:09 am 71.7.48.174
Source: my collection (of tabloids, magazines and books).
Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least three different tiaras. What I'd like to know is whether any of you could recognize these tiaras.
Rose (shortly before King George VI and Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and Kathleen were still alive at that point)
This was the time when Kathleen, left, and Rosemary were presented to British society in London. Their mother Rose was wearing this tiara when she stood between them. What was this tiara? View of just this tiara alone....
Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) (where the Kennedy family vacation home was located). View of this tiara alone.....
Re: Rose Kennedy and Tiaras
Posted by Mia on June 28, 2012, 4:18 am, in reply to "Rose Kennedy and Tiaras" 83.145.241.160
The middle tiara reminds of Lady Bessborough tiara. I wonder if it is the same?
--Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : :
the Countess of Bessborough loaned an other tiare to Rose Kennedy to wear while living in London. This one is a Chaumet and was worn by Rose to the Covent Garden Opera House on march 22nd 1939
As papal countess, she could have had her own tiara perhaps?
Re: Papal countess
Posted by Cynthia on June 28, 2012, 12:01 pm, in reply to "Papal countess" 50.53.172.82
As the wife of a very rich man, she could have had her own tiara as well. But as an American... even though plenty of rich American ladies had (and still have) tiaras, it's not entirely "done," like bowing or curtseying.
Re: Papal countess
Posted by TMN Raugravine on June 28, 2012, 2:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Papal countess"
Was she indeed made a papal countess? I never read that she was. Such a title would have no validity in the USA
--Previous Message-- : As the wife of a very rich man, she could have : had her own tiara as well. But as an : American... even though plenty of rich : American ladies had (and still have) tiaras, : it's not entirely "done," like : bowing or curtseying. : "Without social history, economic history is barren and political history is intelligible" G.M. Trevelyan
Re: Papal countess
Posted by Agnes on June 28, 2012, 3:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Papal countess" 89.75.73.250
Yes, in 1951 by Pope Pius XII.
--Previous Message-- : Was she indeed made a papal countess? I never : read that she was. Such a title would have : no validity in the USA : : --Previous Message-- : As the wife of a very rich man, she could : have : had her own tiara as well. But as an : American... even though plenty of rich : American ladies had (and still have) tiaras, : it's not entirely "done," like : bowing or curtseying. : : :
Mia & Maridje, thanks for the positive identification of the middle tiara as that of the Countess of Bessborough.
Maridje, thanks for the picture of the 4th tiara Rose Kennedy was known to have worn. I have not seen these two particular pictures before of that tiara.
Anyone else recognize the two others??
--Previous Message-- : Good eyes Mia. : : : : : : : the Countess of Bessborough loaned an other : tiare to Rose Kennedy to wear while living : in London. This one is a Chaumet and was : worn by Rose to the Covent Garden Opera : House on march 22nd 1939 : : : : :
I am wondering that since Kathleen Kennedy became the Marchioness of Hartington as the result of her marriage to the eldest son of the 10th Duke of Devonshire, was she known to have been photographed wearing a tiara belonging to that family? If not photographed, did she ever wear a tiara in public from the comments in any magazine or newspaper?? Does anyone know?
--Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : :
Kathleen was married for only a few weeks; her husband was killed in the war not long after their wedding. Her wedding dress was a daytime suit. I doubt she ever wore a tiara, though she was close to her late husband's family until her own death a few years later. She is buried in the Devonshire family cemetery, and President Kennedy visited her grave when he was in England. jinja
1944/05-Wedding William Cavendish, Marquiness of Hartington Kathleen Kennedy- Duke and Duchess of Devonshire, William's parents - Joe Kennedy
Kathleen Kennedy was catholic and William anglican.Rose Kennedy refused to attend the wedding ceremony. Only Kathleen's eldest brother, Joe Kennedy, Jr., attended.
William was killed in action 4 months later, she died in 1948/05/13 in a plane crash in France. Maridje
I know the details of the Kennedys' lives, including that of Kathleen. I know she was married for a brief time but she was the marchioness of Hartington from 1944 to 1948, so maybe she may have worn a tiara belonging to her husband's family during that time period. Actually, the question I asked was aimed for the British posters, hoping some of them may have seen either pictures or comments that Kathleen did wear something. You are as American as I am, Jinja, but maybe the British posters had seen something in their newspapers or magazines. Hence for my question in my previous post. Maybe I should have made clear as to whom I was asking that question.
--Previous Message-- : Kathleen was married for only a few weeks; her : husband was killed in the war not long after : their wedding. Her wedding dress was a : daytime suit. I doubt she ever wore a : tiara, though she was close to her late : husband's family until her own death a few : years later. She is buried in the : Devonshire family cemetery, and President : Kennedy visited her grave when he was in : England. : :
She was the Marchioness for only as long as her marriage. Upon Billy's death, his sister-in-law Debo (now the Dowager Duchess) became the Marchioness. I believe that her tombstone reads "Kathleen, Lady Hartington".
--Previous Message-- : I know the details of the Kennedys' lives, : including that of Kathleen. I know she was : married for a brief time but she was the : marchioness of Hartington from 1944 to 1948, : so maybe she may have worn a tiara belonging : to her husband's family during that time : period. Actually, the question I asked was : aimed for the British posters, hoping some : of them may have seen either pictures or : comments that Kathleen did wear something. : You are as American as I am, Jinja, but : maybe the British posters had seen something : in their newspapers or magazines. Hence for : my question in my previous post. Maybe I : should have made clear as to whom I was : asking that question. : : --Previous Message-- : Kathleen was married for only a few weeks; : her : husband was killed in the war not long after : their wedding. Her wedding dress was a : daytime suit. I doubt she ever wore a : tiara, though she was close to her late : husband's family until her own death a few : years later. She is buried in the : Devonshire family cemetery, and President : Kennedy visited her grave when he was in : England. : : : :
Kathleen stayed in London until her death in 1948. She lived in a house in Smith Square and was robbed of some of her jewels. Her former mother-in-law Duchess Mary subsequently lent her some jewels, but I don't know what sort.
I'm thinking that there weren't many tiara-wearing occasions during those years
--Previous Message-- : I am wondering that since Kathleen Kennedy : became the Marchioness of Hartington as the : result of her marriage to the eldest son of : the 10th Duke of Devonshire, was she known : to have been photographed wearing a tiara : belonging to that family? If not : photographed, did she ever wear a tiara in : public from the comments in any magazine or : newspaper?? Does anyone know? : : --Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, : magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : : : :
Here is a link to a newspaper article (10/26/1946) about the theft. In it, Kathleen is mistakenly identified as "the Marchioness of Hartington". It doesn't give details about the $40K of jewels stolen, but keep in mind that Kathleen did have jewelry of her own (some from her father, who had given her a sapphire watch, among other pieces).
--Previous Message-- : Kathleen stayed in London until her death in : 1948. She lived in a house in Smith Square : and was robbed of some of her jewels. Her : former mother-in-law Duchess Mary : subsequently lent her some jewels, but I : don't know what sort. : : I'm thinking that there weren't many : tiara-wearing occasions during those years : : --Previous Message-- : I am wondering that since Kathleen Kennedy : became the Marchioness of Hartington as the : result of her marriage to the eldest son of : the 10th Duke of Devonshire, was she known : to have been photographed wearing a tiara : belonging to that family? If not : photographed, did she ever wear a tiara in : public from the comments in any magazine or : newspaper?? Does anyone know? : : --Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, : magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : : : : : :
In the rule of British titles, a woman maintains her husbands titles even after she is divorced or widowed, until she remarries.
Thus, after Billy's death she became Kathleen, Marchioness of Hartington (which is the customary way to refer to Dowagers), of course the title of Marchioness of Hartington can be shortened to Lady Hartington as all peeress can shorten their titles but this is in an informal social sense, never an official title.
--Previous Message-- : She was the Marchioness for only as long as : her marriage. Upon Billy's death, his : sister-in-law Debo (now the Dowager Duchess) : became the Marchioness. I believe that her : tombstone reads "Kathleen, Lady : Hartington". : : --Previous Message-- : I know the details of the Kennedys' lives, : including that of Kathleen. I know she was : married for a brief time but she was the : marchioness of Hartington from 1944 to 1948, : so maybe she may have worn a tiara belonging : to her husband's family during that time : period. Actually, the question I asked was : aimed for the British posters, hoping some : of them may have seen either pictures or : comments that Kathleen did wear something. : You are as American as I am, Jinja, but : maybe the British posters had seen something : in their newspapers or magazines. Hence for : my question in my previous post. Maybe I : should have made clear as to whom I was : asking that question. : : --Previous Message-- : Kathleen was married for only a few weeks; : her : husband was killed in the war not long after : their wedding. Her wedding dress was a : daytime suit. I doubt she ever wore a : tiara, though she was close to her late : husband's family until her own death a few : years later. She is buried in the : Devonshire family cemetery, and President : Kennedy visited her grave when he was in : England. : : : : : :
Thank you, Sarah, for the interesting link to that newspaper piece! And I appreciate your taking time to look for any information re: Kathleen's jewels.
--Previous Message-- : Here is a link to a newspaper article : (10/26/1946) about the theft. In it, : Kathleen is mistakenly identified as : "the Marchioness of Hartington". : It doesn't give details about the $40K of : jewels stolen, but keep in mind that : Kathleen did have jewelry of her own (some : from her father, who had given her a : sapphire watch, among other pieces). : : : http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19461026&id=3SdZAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kvUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4223,6682559 : : : --Previous Message-- : Kathleen stayed in London until her death in : 1948. She lived in a house in Smith Square : and was robbed of some of her jewels. Her : former mother-in-law Duchess Mary : subsequently lent her some jewels, but I : don't know what sort. : : I'm thinking that there weren't many : tiara-wearing occasions during those years : : --Previous Message-- : I am wondering that since Kathleen Kennedy : became the Marchioness of Hartington as the : result of her marriage to the eldest son of : the 10th Duke of Devonshire, was she known : to have been photographed wearing a tiara : belonging to that family? If not : photographed, did she ever wear a tiara in : public from the comments in any magazine or : newspaper?? Does anyone know? : : --Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, : magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : : : : : : : :
Correct - but she was not "the" Marchioness of Hartington - that was Debo.
--Previous Message-- : In the rule of British titles, a woman : maintains her husbands titles even after she : is divorced or widowed, until she remarries. : : Thus, after Billy's death she became : Kathleen, Marchioness of Hartington (which : is the customary way to refer to Dowagers), : of course the title of Marchioness of : Hartington can be shortened to Lady : Hartington as all peeress can shorten their : titles but this is in an informal social : sense, never an official title. : : --Previous Message-- : She was the Marchioness for only as long as : her marriage. Upon Billy's death, his : sister-in-law Debo (now the Dowager Duchess) : became the Marchioness. I believe that her : tombstone reads "Kathleen, Lady : Hartington". : : --Previous Message-- : I know the details of the Kennedys' lives, : including that of Kathleen. I know she was : married for a brief time but she was the : marchioness of Hartington from 1944 to 1948, : so maybe she may have worn a tiara belonging : to her husband's family during that time : period. Actually, the question I asked was : aimed for the British posters, hoping some : of them may have seen either pictures or : comments that Kathleen did wear something. : You are as American as I am, Jinja, but : maybe the British posters had seen something : in their newspapers or magazines. Hence for : my question in my previous post. Maybe I : should have made clear as to whom I was : asking that question. : : --Previous Message-- : Kathleen was married for only a few weeks; : her : husband was killed in the war not long after : their wedding. Her wedding dress was a : daytime suit. I doubt she ever wore a : tiara, though she was close to her late : husband's family until her own death a few : years later. She is buried in the : Devonshire family cemetery, and President : Kennedy visited her grave when he was in : England. : : : : : : : :
You are welcome - I had read a biography of her and I have NO idea why I remembered that bit (but I did, must have been because it was about jewels). So I looked for some details.
--Previous Message-- : Thank you, Sarah, for the interesting link to : that newspaper piece! And I appreciate your : taking time to look for any information re: : Kathleen's jewels. : : --Previous Message-- : Here is a link to a newspaper article : (10/26/1946) about the theft. In it, : Kathleen is mistakenly identified as : "the Marchioness of Hartington". : It doesn't give details about the $40K of : jewels stolen, but keep in mind that : Kathleen did have jewelry of her own (some : from her father, who had given her a : sapphire watch, among other pieces). : : : : http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19461026&id=3SdZAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kvUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4223,6682559 : : : --Previous Message-- : Kathleen stayed in London until her death in : 1948. She lived in a house in Smith Square : and was robbed of some of her jewels. Her : former mother-in-law Duchess Mary : subsequently lent her some jewels, but I : don't know what sort. : : I'm thinking that there weren't many : tiara-wearing occasions during those years : : --Previous Message-- : I am wondering that since Kathleen Kennedy : became the Marchioness of Hartington as the : result of her marriage to the eldest son of : the 10th Duke of Devonshire, was she known : to have been photographed wearing a tiara : belonging to that family? If not : photographed, did she ever wear a tiara in : public from the comments in any magazine or : newspaper?? Does anyone know? : : --Previous Message-- : Source: my collection (of tabloids, : magazines : and books). : : Rose Kennedy was known to have worn at least : three different tiaras. What I'd like to : know is whether any of you could recognize : these tiaras. : : Rose (shortly before King George VI and : Queen Elizabeth arrived at the American : Embassy; I believe she borrowed this tiara : from a British noblewoman, didn't she? If : so, who would that noblewoman be?)(This is : in the late 1930s; at least Joe Jr and : Kathleen were still alive at that point) : : : This was the time when Kathleen, left, and : Rosemary were presented to British society : in London. Their mother Rose was wearing : this tiara when she stood between them. What : was this tiara? : : View of just this tiara alone.... : : : Rose wore this tiara at a Palm Beach, : Florida, party (probably in the early 1970s) : (where the Kennedy family vacation home was : located). : : View of this tiara alone..... : : : : : : : : : : : : :
Maybe I should have made clear as to whom I was asking that question.