Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by Nellie on July 18, 2012, 9:04 pm
124.170.57.61

JohnPete opened this topic below at http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/msg/1342662431.html I think we can come up with many ideas without having any of the argument over the rights and wrongs please. Let's just consider the options for head ornaments for a Princes Consort - travelling to the coronation, during parts of the ceremony and on leaving. I used to think the remodelled Durbar Tiara was crying out for something to be added to the tiny bar across the top and that it was there to hold a setting fcr the Koh-i-Noor.

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by jinja on July 18, 2012, 9:16 pm, in reply to "Princess Consort head ornament"
76.230.149.253

I agree that the gold bar is there to hold the Koh-i-Noor or a Cullinan diamond. I'm not sure if you're suggesting the Durbar tiara, but I believe Camilla and Charles would be in big trouble if she appeared at his Coronation in a headpiece so connected to Empire. How about the diamond diadem? It is already associated with Coronations. Or perhaps just a tiara like the Greville plus her coronet? (I'm sorry if this breaks the rules about no rights or wrongs, but appropriateness does have to be considered. Even the diamond diadem might be considered too much associated with queens.) jinja

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by Nellie on July 18, 2012, 9:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
124.170.57.61

Sure, it is sensitive but we can do it. Just leave personalities out and treat it as an exercise in historic jewels and customs. Having thought a bit more, I think a PC would travel to a coronation wearing something and not bare headed, as does a consort to be crowned. So a PC could wear the Diamond Diadem 1820. She could herself add a coronet at the point when all peers and peeresses add theirs at the time of the crowning of the KIng. The PC would leave wearing all that too. --Previous Message-- : I agree that the gold bar is there to hold the : Koh-i-Noor or a Cullinan diamond. I'm not : sure if you're suggesting the Durbar tiara, : but I believe Camilla and Charles would be : in big trouble if she appeared at his : Coronation in a headpiece so connected to : Empire. How about the diamond diadem? It : is already associated with Coronations. Or : perhaps just a tiara like the Greville plus : her coronet? : : (I'm sorry if this breaks the rules about no : rights or wrongs, but appropriateness does : have to be considered. Even the diamond : diadem might be considered too much : associated with queens.) :

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by jinja on July 18, 2012, 9:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"

I think the diamond diadem is almost a coronet in its own right, but diadem plus coronet sounds like a good solution. It would clearly identify her position. I wonder what a princess consort coronet looks like. Was Prince Phillip's different from the coronets of the other royal Dukes? Would Camilla's be the coronet she is entitled to as a Duchess? Edit: I agree that she would not proceed to a Coronation bareheaded unless she was to be crowned. jinja

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by JohnPete on July 18, 2012, 10:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
69.201.161.81

I think the diamond diadem is perfect too, except I would have her wear it with a velvet cap and turned up with ermine. It is more or less a coronet, after all. Perhaps I would have her ride to the Abbey bareheaded. Then, after the crowning itself the King returns having traded St Edwards Crown and his golden vestments for the Imperial Crown and royal purple robe, Camilla will be in the procession with him, the ermine capped diamond diadem discreetly placed on her head during the recess. I think diadem and coronet together looks awkward. Another option is Delhi Durbar in its original upright arrangement (not flattened) worn on top of the head as Queen Mary did, Cullinans and emeralds in place along with velvet cap. Or.......have Mary of Modena's diadem reset with real stones. Except it is probably tiny and meant for 17th century hairstyles. --Previous Message-- : I think the diamond diadem is almost a coronet : in its own right, but diadem plus coronet : sounds like a good solution. It would : clearly identify her position. I wonder what : a princess consort coronet looks like. Was : Prince Phillip's different from the coronets : of the other royal Dukes? Would Camilla's : be the coronet she is entitled to as a : Duchess? : : Edit: I agree that she would not proceed to : a Coronation bareheaded unless she was to be : crowned. : :

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by joye on July 18, 2012, 11:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
125.168.48.209

She could wear her own tiara - the Shand Tiara. --Previous Message-- : : Sure, it is sensitive but we can do it. : Just leave personalities out and treat it as : an exercise in historic jewels and customs. : : Having thought a bit more, I think a PC : would travel to a coronation wearing : something and not bare headed, as does a : consort to be crowned. : : So a PC could wear the Diamond Diadem 1820. : She could herself add a coronet at the point : when all peers and peeresses add theirs at : the time of the crowning of the KIng. : The PC would leave wearing all that too. : : --Previous Message-- : I agree that the gold bar is there to hold : the : Koh-i-Noor or a Cullinan diamond. I'm not : sure if you're suggesting the Durbar tiara, : but I believe Camilla and Charles would be : in big trouble if she appeared at his : Coronation in a headpiece so connected to : Empire. How about the diamond diadem? It : is already associated with Coronations. Or : perhaps just a tiara like the Greville plus : her coronet? : : (I'm sorry if this breaks the rules about no : rights or wrongs, but appropriateness does : have to be considered. Even the diamond : diadem might be considered too much : associated with queens.) : : :

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by Count75 on July 19, 2012, 12:24 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
74.72.206.18

I thought the Duchess of York was bareheaded while sitted next to the King on the way to their coronation. --Previous Message-- : : Sure, it is sensitive but we can do it. : Just leave personalities out and treat it as : an exercise in historic jewels and customs. : : Having thought a bit more, I think a PC : would travel to a coronation wearing : something and not bare headed, as does a : consort to be crowned. : : So a PC could wear the Diamond Diadem 1820. : She could herself add a coronet at the point : when all peers and peeresses add theirs at : the time of the crowning of the KIng. : The PC would leave wearing all that too. : : --Previous Message-- : I agree that the gold bar is there to hold : the : Koh-i-Noor or a Cullinan diamond. I'm not : sure if you're suggesting the Durbar tiara, : but I believe Camilla and Charles would be : in big trouble if she appeared at his : Coronation in a headpiece so connected to : Empire. How about the diamond diadem? It : is already associated with Coronations. Or : perhaps just a tiara like the Greville plus : her coronet? : : (I'm sorry if this breaks the rules about no : rights or wrongs, but appropriateness does : have to be considered. Even the diamond : diadem might be considered too much : associated with queens.) : : :

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by Nellie on July 19, 2012, 1:08 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
124.170.57.61

Yes she was. I had the commas in the wrong places. A Queen Consort who is to be crowned remains bareheaded until her own crowning takes place after the King has been crowned and installed on his throne. Next, the King is crowned, then enthroned and waits while the Queen Consort's ceremony proceeds. Next, the crowned Queen proceeds to her throne. --Previous Message-- : I thought the Duchess of York was bareheaded : while sitted next to the King on the way to : their coronation.

Re: more ideas

Posted by Nellie on July 19, 2012, 1:25 am, in reply to "Princess Consort head ornament"
124.170.57.61

I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a brooch, in its lozenge setting. For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops! Wow! This would introduce something unqiue for the unusual circumstances in over a century. At the point of crowning the King, the PC could add her coronet just like the peers and peeresses do. Two head items are common at a coronation so I see no problem with those two worn together. Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the Abbey and in official photos. I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip was specific for a prince consort. I have no idea what the coronet for a princess consort would be but expect it would be a smaller lady's verson of his. I hope someone can advise here.

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 19, 2012, 4:01 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the arches. --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Nellie on July 19, 2012, 5:57 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.170.57.61

Because it's a crown. --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 19, 2012, 6:05 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

Not without the arches. It becomes a circlet. --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : :

Re: Princess Consort head ornament

Posted by Count75 on July 19, 2012, 12:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Consort head ornament"
74.72.206.18

Thanks for posting these pictures. --Previous Message-- : : Yes she was. I had the commas in the wrong : places. : A Queen Consort who is to be crowned : remains bareheaded until her own crowning : takes place after the King has been crowned : and installed on his throne. : : : : Next, the King is crowned, then enthroned : and waits while the Queen Consort's ceremony : proceeds. : : : : Next, the crowned Queen proceeds to her : throne. : : : : : : --Previous Message-- : I thought the Duchess of York was bareheaded : while sitted next to the King on the way to : their coronation. :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Count75 on July 19, 2012, 12:43 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
74.72.206.18

--Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is legally wed to Charles.

Philip's coronet

Posted by Cynthia on July 19, 2012, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
50.53.172.82

He's wearing a royal coronet, as there hasn't been a "prince consort" at a coronation. Good ol' Wikipedia: "...[and] the Duke of Edinburgh was granted in 1947 use of, the coronet of a child of the Sovereign (four crosses patée alternating with four fleurs-de-lis)..."

Re: Philip's coronet

Posted by jinja on July 19, 2012, 3:00 pm, in reply to "Philip's coronet"
76.230.149.253

That's very interesting. Almost as if Phillip was adopted by the King. Are the Queen's children now entitled to the same coronet? jinja

Re: Philip's coronet

Posted by Cynthia on July 19, 2012, 3:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Philip's coronet"
50.53.172.82

Here's the full article: the duke of York uses the same one as the duke of Edinburgh, and the other royal dukes have their own versions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dukedoms_in_the_United_Kingdom I guess they didn't want another "limbo" situation like Prince Albert --not a royal duke or any kind of peer, but not a king either.

Re: more ideas

Posted by Boris on July 19, 2012, 4:04 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
62.157.59.15

By common British law, Wallis as the wife of the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a title which was denied to her without legal basis - just like the minute Prince Charles becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the Windsors might or might not decide to use in Camilla's case in the end. The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an interesting one, but the thread should at least include the hint that in reality, such headwear might not be needed after all - whether for different future decisions about the styling of Charles' wife or for future changes in the ceremonial aspects of the British coronation. --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Honor on July 19, 2012, 4:16 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
50.138.224.126

Well said. I agree. --Previous Message-- : By common British law, Wallis as the wife of : the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a : title which was denied to her without legal : basis - just like the minute Prince Charles : becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife : is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the : Windsors might or might not decide to use in : Camilla's case in the end. : : The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an : interesting one, but the thread should at : least include the hint that in reality, such : headwear might not be needed after all - : whether for different future decisions about : the styling of Charles' wife or for future : changes in the ceremonial aspects of the : British coronation. : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. : : :

Peeresses coronets

Posted by JohnPete on July 19, 2012, 6:05 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
69.201.161.81

Unfortunately, we will not see the grand sight of the white gloved arms of the peeresses placing their little coronets on their heads. Peeresses only get to do that if the coronation either features a queen consort or a queen regnant. If it is a king only, with no consort, peeresses do not get to wear coronets. If the whole PC plan comes to pass, technically it will be a king's coronation only. I have a personal opinion on peeresses at coronations. First, as I stated before, in my opinion a coronet worn in conjunction with a tiara looks odd to me, sort of out of balance. That's just my opinion. Second, I think peeress robes are very dated and I don't think I am off the mark by saying that a modern, fashionable woman is not going to want to cover up an expensive couture gown with a heavy scarlet robe. If it were like a princess or queen's robe it would be another story, as these fasten at the shoulders only. But a peeress robe fits like a bathrobe with another piece in the rear serving as a train. It covers up a substantial amount of a gown, even Hartnell's revision with the slightly open front did little to change the fact that these robes becomes the focal part of the dressing and not the gown. This is all o/t, I know. --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Steven on July 19, 2012, 6:20 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
99.62.165.123

I very simply think that Charles upon acession will issue letters patent making Camilla Queen Consort and she will go bare headed to the Abbey and then be crowned with either Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's Crown, Mary of Modena's crown, or Queen Mary's Crown - if she does not go bare headed I think Victoria's Small Diamond Crown to the Abbey is a possibility --Previous Message-- : By common British law, Wallis as the wife of : the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a : title which was denied to her without legal : basis - just like the minute Prince Charles : becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife : is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the : Windsors might or might not decide to use in : Camilla's case in the end. : : The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an : interesting one, but the thread should at : least include the hint that in reality, such : headwear might not be needed after all - : whether for different future decisions about : the styling of Charles' wife or for future : changes in the ceremonial aspects of the : British coronation. : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. : : :

Re: Peeresses coronets

Posted by Nellie on July 19, 2012, 7:11 pm, in reply to "Peeresses coronets"
124.170.57.61

I've been trying to find notes on the dress rules published in The Times for the last 3 or 4 coronations. The rules varied. But I think you are right that the peeresses might not get to wear coronets if no queen is crowned. However, the rules can be made for the occasion, which has occurred before, from memory. I agree that many of the peeresses robes look less than elegant let alone practical. --Previous Message-- : Unfortunately, we will not see the grand sight : of the white gloved arms of the peeresses : placing their little coronets on their : heads. Peeresses only get to do that if the : coronation either features a queen consort : or a queen regnant. If it is a king only, : with no consort, peeresses do not get to : wear coronets. If the whole PC plan comes : to pass, technically it will be a king's : coronation only. : : I have a personal opinion on peeresses at : coronations. First, as I stated before, in : my opinion a coronet worn in conjunction : with a tiara looks odd to me, sort of out of : balance. That's just my opinion. Second, I : think peeress robes are very dated and I : don't think I am off the mark by saying that : a modern, fashionable woman is not going to : want to cover up an expensive couture gown : with a heavy scarlet robe. If it were like a : princess or queen's robe it would be another : story, as these fasten at the shoulders : only. But a peeress robe fits like a : bathrobe with another piece in the rear : serving as a train. It covers up a : substantial amount of a gown, even : Hartnell's revision with the slightly open : front did little to change the fact that : these robes becomes the focal part of the : dressing and not the gown. : : This is all o/t, I know.

Re: royal coronets

Posted by Nellie on July 19, 2012, 7:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Philip's coronet"
124.170.57.61

I agree that Philip's was a royal coronet. Did not use my notes. Here is one note I found - In the book for the coronation of Edward VII, and dealing with the regalia -- " The coronet of the Prince of Wales differs from that of a duke in having alternate crosses-patées, and fleur-de-lis of gold instead of strawberry leaves, with a single arch depressed in the centre and bearing an orb or mound surmounted by a cross. " The coronets of the princes of the royal family are the same, but without the arch, and those of the princesses substitute strawberry leaves for two of the crosses. " It is said that Charles II prescribed all these differences."

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 19, 2012, 7:36 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

I agree and I think that the Queen Mothers' crown is at the shortest odds when you consider how much of Her Late Majestys' jewellery Camilla has to wear now. --Previous Message-- : I very simply think that Charles upon acession : will issue letters patent making Camilla : Queen Consort and she will go bare headed to : the Abbey and then be crowned with either : Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's Crown, : Mary of Modena's crown, or Queen Mary's : Crown - if she does not go bare headed I : think Victoria's Small Diamond Crown to the : Abbey is a possibility : : --Previous Message-- : By common British law, Wallis as the wife of : the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a : title which was denied to her without legal : basis - just like the minute Prince Charles : becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife : is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the : Windsors might or might not decide to use in : Camilla's case in the end. : : The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an : interesting one, but the thread should at : least include the hint that in reality, such : headwear might not be needed after all - : whether for different future decisions about : the styling of Charles' wife or for future : changes in the ceremonial aspects of the : British coronation. : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. : : : : :

Re: Peeresses coronets

Posted by jinja on July 19, 2012, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Peeresses coronets"
76.230.149.253

I think the peeresses were probably glad of the warmth of their robes at the last Coronation, which happened on a cold and rainy June day. It's not as if the Coronation is a ball; it has its own dress code. I also think that if anything a Coronation of Charles will be as elaborate as he can make it, and that there is a good chance Camilla will be crowned. If she were not, where would that leave Catherine in the next reign? I suspect there will be as much adherence to tradition as possible. William, on the other hand, might streamline traditions while still following them. jinja

Re: more ideas

Posted by jinja on July 19, 2012, 8:00 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
76.230.149.253

I agree. Given Charles's close relationship with the Queen Mother, and the presence of the Koh-i-Noor diamond, I expect Camilla would wear the QEQM crown. But the large diamonds of course could be returned to Queen Mary's crown, and I think if Diana had been crowned it might have been used. jinja

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 19, 2012, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

Personally I'd love to see the real stones reinstated to Queen Alexandras' crown. --Previous Message-- : I agree. Given Charles's close relationship : with the Queen Mother, and the presence of : the Koh-i-Noor diamond, I expect Camilla : would wear the QEQM crown. But the large : diamonds of course could be returned to : Queen Mary's crown, and I think if Diana : had been crowned it might have been used. :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Count75 on July 20, 2012, 12:41 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
74.72.206.18

I hope Charles, if and when he becomes king, doesn't alter the coronation ceremony in any way. --Previous Message-- : By common British law, Wallis as the wife of : the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a : title which was denied to her without legal : basis - just like the minute Prince Charles : becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife : is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the : Windsors might or might not decide to use in : Camilla's case in the end. : : The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an : interesting one, but the thread should at : least include the hint that in reality, such : headwear might not be needed after all - : whether for different future decisions about : the styling of Charles' wife or for future : changes in the ceremonial aspects of the : British coronation. : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. : : :

I agree

Posted by Count75 on July 20, 2012, 12:43 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
74.72.206.18

--Previous Message-- : I very simply think that Charles upon acession : will issue letters patent making Camilla : Queen Consort and she will go bare headed to : the Abbey and then be crowned with either : Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's Crown, : Mary of Modena's crown, or Queen Mary's : Crown - if she does not go bare headed I : think Victoria's Small Diamond Crown to the : Abbey is a possibility : : --Previous Message-- : By common British law, Wallis as the wife of : the Duke of Windsor was legally a HRH, a : title which was denied to her without legal : basis - just like the minute Prince Charles : becomes King, by common law Camilla his wife : is HM The Queen Consort, a title which the : Windsors might or might not decide to use in : Camilla's case in the end. : : The 'Princess Consort headwear' idea is an : interesting one, but the thread should at : least include the hint that in reality, such : headwear might not be needed after all - : whether for different future decisions about : the styling of Charles' wife or for future : changes in the ceremonial aspects of the : British coronation. : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Not without the arches. It becomes a : circlet. : : --Previous Message-- : : Because it's a crown. : : : --Previous Message-- : Why not the Queen Mothers crown without the : arches. : : --Previous Message-- : : I think a PC could wear the Koh-i-Noor as a : brooch, in its lozenge setting. : : For going to the Abbey, the PC could wear : the Vladimir tiara with diamond drops ! : Wow! : This would introduce something unqiue for : the unusual circumstances in over a century. : : At the point of crowning the King, the PC : could add her coronet just like the peers : and peeresses do. : Two head items are common at a coronation so : I see no problem with those two worn : together. : : Both would be worn by the PC on leaving the : Abbey and in official photos. : : I believe the coronet worn by Phince Philip : was specific for a prince consort. : I have no idea what the coronet for a : princess consort would be but expect it : would be a smaller lady's verson of his. : I hope someone can advise here. : : : : : : : : : : : : Do you think there will be a big outcry if : Camilla is crowned queen consort? She is : legally wed to Charles. : : : : : Charles will not have it any other way and since he's the king he can have it his way. I think the British people will accept it. There will some who will be against it but that's always the case.

Re: more ideas

Posted by Nellie on July 20, 2012, 3:58 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.170.57.61

I recall reading some time back that Charles had lots of ideas for his coronation in due course. At the time there was discussion over his idea of Defender of Faiths rather than Defender of the Faith. That did not go down well. I fear that he might want to fiddle too much with changes and ignore traditions, to make it multicultural. --Previous Message-- : I hope Charles, if and when he becomes king, : doesn't alter the coronation ceremony in any : way. :

Re: Peeresses coronets

Posted by Royal Enthusiast on July 20, 2012, 4:59 am, in reply to "Re: Peeresses coronets"

: I also think that if anything a Coronation : of Charles will be as elaborate as he can : make it, and that there is a good chance : Camilla will be crowned. If she were not, : where would that leave Catherine in the next : reign? I suspect there will be as much : adherence to tradition as possible. : William, on the other hand, might streamline : traditions while still following them. : That would leave Catherine as being crowned along side her husband. There's no reason why that should change if infact Camilla is not crowned. William and Catherine's story is completely different to that of Charles and Camilla which is the reason behind the intended proposal in the first place. RE

Re: Peeresses coronets

Posted by Nellie on July 20, 2012, 5:04 am, in reply to "Re: Peeresses coronets"
124.170.57.61

I quite agree. --Previous Message-- : : I also think that if anything a Coronation : of Charles will be as elaborate as he can : make it, and that there is a good chance : Camilla will be crowned. If she were not, : where would that leave Catherine in the next : reign? I suspect there will be as much : adherence to tradition as possible. : William, on the other hand, might streamline : traditions while still following them. : : : That would leave Catherine as being crowned : along side her husband. There's no reason : why that should change if infact Camilla is : not crowned. : : William and Catherines story is completely : different to that of Charles and Camilla : which is the reason behind the intended : proposal in the first place. : : RE :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 20, 2012, 6:09 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

Thankfully there is one person he listens too, Camilla. I'm sure she will be the voice of reason --Previous Message-- : : I recall reading some time back that Charles : had lots of ideas for his coronation in due : course. : At the time there was discussion over his : idea of Defender of Faiths rather than : Defender of the Faith. That did not go down : well. : I fear that he might want to fiddle too much : with changes and ignore traditions, to make : it multicultural. : : : : --Previous Message-- : I hope Charles, if and when he becomes king, : doesn't alter the coronation ceremony in any : way. : : :

Re: more ideas

Posted by jinja on July 20, 2012, 7:45 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
76.230.149.253

Yes, that's a lovely crown. jinja

Re: more ideas

Posted by LittleMo on July 20, 2012, 8:26 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
86.136.16.101

Well yes he listens to her, but we are an increasingly multicultural country these days, and its a bit hard when the religion that he will be defender of doesn't approve of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! --Previous Message-- : Thankfully there is one person he listens too, : Camilla. I'm sure she will be the voice of : reason : : --Previous Message-- : : I recall reading some time back that Charles : had lots of ideas for his coronation in due : course. : At the time there was discussion over his : idea of Defender of Faiths rather than : Defender of the Faith. That did not go down : well. : I fear that he might want to fiddle too much : with changes and ignore traditions, to make : it multicultural. : : : : --Previous Message-- : I hope Charles, if and when he becomes king, : doesn't alter the coronation ceremony in any : way. : : : : :

Re: royal coronets

Posted by LittleMo on July 20, 2012, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: royal coronets"
86.136.16.101

So Charles has his Prince of Wales coronet, Andrew uses Philip's, and Edward - is only an Earl after all at the moment (tee hee hee). Here is what his coronet would look like. I don't believe we have ever seen him wear one? I think Andrew only wore one because in the 1980s (or was it 1990s) he actually went into the house of Lords. I wonder if Camilla has had a Duchesses coronet made up at all yet? Don't know when she would wear it - so why bother ?(at the moment ) --Previous Message-- : : I agree that Philip's was a royal coronet. : Did not use my notes. : : Here is one note I found - : In the book for the coronation of Edward : VII, and dealing with the regalia -- : : " The coronet of the Prince of Wales : differs from that of a duke in having : alternate crosses-patées, and fleur-de-lis : of gold instead of strawberry leaves, with a : single arch depressed in the centre and : bearing an orb or mound surmounted by a : cross. : " The coronets of the princes of the : royal family are the same, but without the : arch, and those of the princesses substitute : strawberry leaves for two of the crosses. : " It is said that Charles II prescribed : all these differences." : : :

Re: royal coronets

Posted by Boffer on July 20, 2012, 9:28 pm, in reply to "Re: royal coronets"

Incorrect. Andrew and Edward's titles of Duke and Earl are essentially courtesy titles. As such, their titles of Prince of the United Kingdom, and their rank as children of the Sovereign mean that they are able to wear the coronet of a Prince, and use this in their coat of arms. A good indication of the coronet that Princes, Princesses, Peers and Peeresses would and are entitled to wear, is to look at their coat of arms and see which is there depicted. I created a thread on the coronets that royals are entitled to wear long ago, and it has since disappeared; but it is important to remember that despite having peerage titles, royals will never wear the coronets associated with those titles; they will always wear the coronets associated with their royal ranks - as after all, royal rank is higher in the social precedence than any courtesy peerage titles they may have use of. Here is a full list of illustrations of the British Coronets associated with the different royals and also peerages, explaining who is entitled to wear which (and use in the heraldry). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet#British_coronet_rankings It should be noted that there are different coronets for: - The Heir Apparent (and consort). Currently HRH The Prince of Wales and HRH The Duchess of Cornwall are entitled to use this coronet. - Prince or Princess; the sons (and their wives) or daughters of the Sovereign Currently HRH The Duke of York, TRHs The Earl and Countess of Wessex and HRH The Princess Royal are entitled to use this coronet; HRH The Duke of Edinburgh has been granted use of this as well. - Prince or Princess; the sons (and their wives) or daughters of the heir apparent Currently TRHs The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and HRH Prince Henry of Wales are entitled to use this coronet. - Prince or Princess; children of other sons of the sovereign Currently HRH Princess Beatrice of York and HRH Princess Eugenie of York are entitled to use this coronet, as are Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor (in their capacity as HRH Prince James of Wessex and HRH Princess Louise of Wessex). In the wider royal family, this is also the coronet used by TRHs The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, TRHs The Duke and Duchess of Kent, TRHs Prince and Princess Michael of Kent and HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent. - There is also a Royal Coronet for Other Grandchildren of the Sovereign (essentially children of the daughters of the Sovereign). Currently Peter Philips and Zara Tindell have the right to use this coronet, as do Viscount Linley and Lady Sarah Chatto.

Re: more ideas

Posted by Wymanda on July 20, 2012, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.149.109.88

Funny that the senior cleric of that religion blessed his marriage in the presence of The Queen. --Previous Message-- : Well yes he listens to her, but we are an : increasingly multicultural country these : days, and its a bit hard when the religion : that he will be defender of doesn't approve : of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! : : --Previous Message-- : Thankfully there is one person he listens : too, : Camilla. I'm sure she will be the voice of : reason : : --Previous Message-- : : I recall reading some time back that Charles : had lots of ideas for his coronation in due : course. : At the time there was discussion over his : idea of Defender of Faiths rather than : Defender of the Faith. That did not go down : well. : I fear that he might want to fiddle too much : with changes and ignore traditions, to make : it multicultural. : : : : --Previous Message-- : I hope Charles, if and when he becomes king, : doesn't alter the coronation ceremony in any : way. : : : : : : :

Andrew and Edward's titles

Posted by Bob on July 20, 2012, 10:46 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
99.231.152.157

Boffer, I believe you are incorrect in calling Andrew and Edward's titles as courtesy titles. I believe they are in fact substantive titles. If they were only courtesy titles, their children would not bear the title (e.g.: Beatrice, Princess of York, and (correctly) Louise, Princess of Wessex

Andrew and Edward's titles

Posted by Bob on July 20, 2012, 10:47 pm, in reply to "Re: royal coronets"

Boffer, I believe you are incorrect in calling Andrew and Edward's titles as courtesy titles. I believe they are in fact substantive titles. If they were only courtesy titles, their children would not bear the title (e.g.: Beatrice, Princess of York, and (correctly) Louise, Princess of Wessex

Re: more ideas

Posted by Nellie on July 21, 2012, 1:03 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.170.57.61

After the civil marriage it was a Service of Prayer and Dedication at Windsor. Not the same as a blessing of a marriage. The media fudge the difference constantly. I read the website of the Cof E very closely at the time and noted many fine distinctions. Extract from the PoW website, and link - The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall were joined by around 800 guests at a Service of Prayer and Dedication at St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle. http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/biography/ --Previous Message-- : Funny that the senior cleric of that religion : blessed his marriage in the presence of The : Queen. : : --Previous Message-- : Well yes he listens to her, but we are an : increasingly multicultural country these : days, and its a bit hard when the religion : that he will be defender of doesn't approve : of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! :

Re: more ideas

Posted by Boris on July 21, 2012, 2:53 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"

Yes, Nellie - now you opened Pandora's Box. IMHO, not the media 'fudged the difference constantly', but the Windsors fudged the difference permanently and blurred the public's vision on purpose - a successful but also a short-sighted strategy. Via the headwear discussion detour we are of course approaching the universally blocked-out question whether the marriage between The Prince of Wales and Camilla Parker-Bowles is a legitimate one in the eyes of the Anglican Church or actually not. This Pandora's Box is quite bottomless once you start thinking of possible consequences, this board is not really the place to discuss it, and although I'm quite sure that behind the scenes it has long been figured out for the Windsors how to deal with it, I cannot imagine that it won't present considerable difficulties following the passing of HM Queen Elizabeth II... regarding the course of events during a coronation and otherwise. --Previous Message-- : : After the civil marriage it was a Service : of Prayer and Dedication at Windsor. : Not the same as a blessing of a marriage. : The media fudge the difference constantly. : : I read the website of the Cof E very closely : at the time and noted many fine : distinctions. : : Extract from the PoW website, and link - : : The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of : Cornwall were joined by around 800 guests at : a Service of Prayer and Dedication at St : George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle. : : : http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/biography/ : : : --Previous Message-- : Funny that the senior cleric of that : religion : blessed his marriage in the presence of The : Queen. : : --Previous Message-- : Well yes he listens to her, but we are an : increasingly multicultural country these : days, and its a bit hard when the religion : that he will be defender of doesn't approve : of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! : : :

Thank you to all

Posted by Nellie on July 21, 2012, 3:08 am, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
124.170.57.61

Boris - thank you for your discretion here. Of course it is a hugely complex set of impossible "difficulties" - and contradictions in some circumstances - and I wish I could explain some aspects. But this is certainly not the board for such a discussion. I am glad that so many have joined in the exploration of some headwear for a Princess Consort and we have got by without heat! There have been many great ideas. Thanks to all. --Previous Message-- : Yes, Nellie - now you opened Pandora's Box. : IMHO, not the media 'fudged the difference : constantly', but the Windsors fudged the : difference permanently and blurred the : public's vision on purpose - a successful : but also a short-sighted strategy. : Via the headwear discussion detour we are of : course approaching the universally : blocked-out question if the marriage between : The Prince of Wales and Camilla : Parker-Bowles is a legitimate one in the : eyes of the Anglican Church or actually not. : This Pandora's Box is quite bottomless once : you start thinking of possible consequences, : this board is not really the place to : discuss it, and although I'm quite sure that : behind the scenes it has long been figured : out for the Windsors how to deal with it, I : cannot imagine that it won't present : considerable difficulties following the : passing of HM Queen Elizabeth II. :

Re: Andrew and Edward's titles

Posted by Boffer on July 21, 2012, 5:36 am, in reply to "Andrew and Edward's titles"
109.145.204.240

Perhaps courtesy titles was the incorrect term, they are however lesser titles, bestow upon them as social tradition within the Royal family that British royals should also have peerages. But my point was that their peerage titles are lesser titles compared to that of their royal titles, they rank higher as Princes of the United Kingdom than they do as Dukes of Earls - thus they wear the Princes coronet, not the Duke or Earls coronet, which was my main point. --Previous Message-- : Boffer, : : I believe you are incorrect in calling : Andrew and Edward's titles as courtesy : titles. I believe they are in fact : substantive titles. If they were only : courtesy titles, their children would not : bear the title (e.g.: Beatrice, Princess of : York, and (correctly) Louise, Princess of : Wessex :

Re: Andrew and Edward's titles

Posted by Bob on July 21, 2012, 10:20 am, in reply to "Re: Andrew and Edward's titles"
99.231.152.157

Boffer, we are in complete agreement in that!

Re: royal coronets - thanks Boffer n/t

Posted by LittleMo on July 21, 2012, 4:31 pm, in reply to "Re: royal coronets"
86.168.92.241

--Previous Message-- : Incorrect. Andrew and Edward's titles of Duke : and Earl are essentially courtesy titles. : : As such, their titles of Prince of the : United Kingdom, and their rank as children : of the Sovereign mean that they are able to : wear the coronet of a Prince, and use this : in their coat of arms. : : A good indication of the coronet that : Princes, Princesses, Peers and Peeresses : would and are entitled to wear, is to look : at their coat of arms and see which is there : depicted. : : I created a thread on the coronets that : royals are entitled to wear long ago, and it : has since disappeared; but it is important : to remember that despite having peerage : titles, royals will never wear the coronets : associated with those titles; they will : always wear the coronets associated with : their royal ranks - as after all, royal rank : is higher in the social precedence than any : courtesy peerage titles they may have use : of. : : Here is a full list of illustrations of the : British Coronets associated with the : different royals and also peerages, : explaining who is entitled to wear which : (and use in the heraldry). : : : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet#British_coronet_rankings : : It should be noted that there are different : coronets for: : - The Heir Apparent (and consort). : : : : Currently HRH The Prince of Wales and HRH : The Duchess of Cornwall are entitled to use : this coronet. : : - Prince or Princess; the sons (and their : wives) or daughters of the Sovereign : : : : Currently HRH The Duke of York, TRHs The : Earl and Countess of Wessex and HRH The : Princess Royal are entitled to use this : coronet; HRH The Duke of Edinburgh has : been granted use of this as well. : : - Prince or Princess; the sons (and their : wives) or daughters of the heir apparent : : : : Currently TRHs The Duke and Duchess of : Cambridge and HRH Prince Henry of Wales are : entitled to use this coronet. : : - Prince or Princess; children of other sons : of the sovereign : : : : Currently HRH Princess Beatrice of York and : HRH Princess Eugenie of York are entitled : to use this coronet, as are Viscount Severn : and Lady Louise Windsor (in their capacity : as HRH Prince James of Wessex and HRH : Princess Louise of Wessex). : : In the wider royal family, this is also the : coronet used by TRHs The Duke and Duchess : of Gloucester, TRHs The Duke and Duchess of : Kent, TRHs Prince and Princess Michael of : Kent and HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent. : : - There is also a Royal Coronet for Other : Grandchildren of the Sovereign : (essentially children of the daughters of : the Sovereign). : : : : Currently Peter Philips and Zara Tindell : have the right to use this coronet, as do : Viscount Linley and Lady Sarah Chatto. : :

Re: Peeresses coronets

Posted by Johan on July 22, 2012, 10:03 am, in reply to "Re: Peeresses coronets"
62.194.154.224

I tend to agree with Jinja. If Camilla is to be Queen but isn't crowned with Charles than Catherine is unlikely to be crowned with William. The tradition will have been broken and with possibly a century between George VI and William V's coronation there will be no repeat of a crowning of the queen. I hope Charles III and Camilla will be crowned like his grandparents were otherwise we'll get a repeat of the coronation of the current Queen. --Previous Message-- : : I quite agree. : : : --Previous Message-- : : I also think that if anything a Coronation : of Charles will be as elaborate as he can : make it, and that there is a good chance : Camilla will be crowned. If she were not, : where would that leave Catherine in the next : reign? I suspect there will be as much : adherence to tradition as possible. : William, on the other hand, might streamline : traditions while still following them. : : : That would leave Catherine as being crowned : along side her husband. There's no reason : why that should change if infact Camilla is : not crowned. : : William and Catherines story is completely : different to that of Charles and Camilla : which is the reason behind the intended : proposal in the first place. : : RE : : :

pretty damn funny

Posted by Steven on July 22, 2012, 7:01 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
99.62.165.123

that the church of england wont bless the marriage because of divorce being it was founded on divorce. Oh the Hypocrisy --Previous Message-- : Yes, Nellie - now you opened Pandora's Box. : IMHO, not the media 'fudged the difference : constantly', but the Windsors fudged the : difference permanently and blurred the : public's vision on purpose - a successful : but also a short-sighted strategy. : Via the headwear discussion detour we are of : course approaching the universally : blocked-out question whether the marriage : between The Prince of Wales and Camilla : Parker-Bowles is a legitimate one in the : eyes of the Anglican Church or actually not. : This Pandora's Box is quite bottomless once : you start thinking of possible consequences, : this board is not really the place to : discuss it, and although I'm quite sure that : behind the scenes it has long been figured : out for the Windsors how to deal with it, I : cannot imagine that it won't present : considerable difficulties following the : passing of HM Queen Elizabeth II... : regarding the course of events during a : coronation and otherwise. : : --Previous Message-- : : After the civil marriage it was a Service : of Prayer and Dedication at Windsor. : Not the same as a blessing of a marriage. : The media fudge the difference constantly. : : I read the website of the Cof E very closely : at the time and noted many fine : distinctions. : : Extract from the PoW website, and link - : : The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of : Cornwall were joined by around 800 guests at : a Service of Prayer and Dedication at St : George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle. : : : : http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/biography/ : : : --Previous Message-- : Funny that the senior cleric of that : religion : blessed his marriage in the presence of The : Queen. : : --Previous Message-- : Well yes he listens to her, but we are an : increasingly multicultural country these : days, and its a bit hard when the religion : that he will be defender of doesn't approve : of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! : : : : : :

Excuse me,

Posted by will on July 29, 2012, 6:42 pm, in reply to "Re: more ideas"
99.68.137.57

but An Order for Prayer and Dedication after a Civil Marriage IS the CofE's "blessing" for a civil marriage -- there is no other! And Camilla will be QC the moment QEII expires unless there is an Act of Parliament to change that--anything else is sheer fiction. Good grief Charlie Windsor (and us)! --Previous Message-- : Yes, Nellie - now you opened Pandora's Box. : IMHO, not the media 'fudged the difference : constantly', but the Windsors fudged the : difference permanently and blurred the : public's vision on purpose - a successful : but also a short-sighted strategy. : Via the headwear discussion detour we are of : course approaching the universally : blocked-out question whether the marriage : between The Prince of Wales and Camilla : Parker-Bowles is a legitimate one in the : eyes of the Anglican Church or actually not. : This Pandora's Box is quite bottomless once : you start thinking of possible consequences, : this board is not really the place to : discuss it, and although I'm quite sure that : behind the scenes it has long been figured : out for the Windsors how to deal with it, I : cannot imagine that it won't present : considerable difficulties following the : passing of HM Queen Elizabeth II... : regarding the course of events during a : coronation and otherwise. : : --Previous Message-- : : After the civil marriage it was a Service : of Prayer and Dedication at Windsor. : Not the same as a blessing of a marriage. : The media fudge the difference constantly. : : I read the website of the Cof E very closely : at the time and noted many fine : distinctions. : : Extract from the PoW website, and link - : : The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of : Cornwall were joined by around 800 guests at : a Service of Prayer and Dedication at St : George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle. : : : : http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/biography/ : : : --Previous Message-- : Funny that the senior cleric of that : religion : blessed his marriage in the presence of The : Queen. : : --Previous Message-- : Well yes he listens to her, but we are an : increasingly multicultural country these : days, and its a bit hard when the religion : that he will be defender of doesn't approve : of his marriage. Now there's a conundrum! : : : : : :