The recent announcement regarding Queen Camilla using Queen Mary's crown for the May coronation included the following:
"This is the first time a Queen Consort’s Crown has been re-used since the 18th century, when Queen Caroline, consort of George II, wore Mary of Modena’s crown."
Which led me to wonder: What crown did Queen Charlotte wear at her coronation? That small one that went back to Hannover?
I've checked various books and notes from the past and none of them can be absolutely clear what was worn on arrival, for crowning, then to depart. It seems some money was applied hiring gems for including the Queen but that does not prove that another item was actually worn besides her tiny nuptial crown. It had been paid for entirely by the King.
Queen Charlotte probably arrived for the coronation wearing her tiny nuptial crown (say some writers) but I'm not convinced because it would have to be removed if used later in an actual crowning ritual. Not impossible of course. Later for taking communion the King removed his crown but Charlotte could not remove hers because it was too securely pinned to the top of her head, which suggests to me her tiny crown.
I'll add some pics to show how difficult it is to be certain of much. The first is her tiny nuptial crown, the second is much later in 1789 but surely the tiny crown, and the last looks too large but is usually stated as for her coronation.
Did Queen Caroline use the diadem and crown of Mary of Modena? And if she did, why would her grandson's wife not use those two pieces as well?
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I've checked various books and notes from the past and none of them can be absolutely clear what was worn on arrival, for crowning, then to depart. It seems some money was applied hiring gems for including the Queen but that does not prove that another item was actually worn besides her tiny nuptial crown. It had been paid for entirely by the King.
Queen Charlotte probably arrived for the coronation wearing her tiny nuptial crown (say some writers) but I'm not convinced because it would have to be removed if used later in an actual crowning ritual. Not impossible of course. Later for taking communion the King removed his crown but Charlotte could not remove hers because it was too securely pinned to the top of her head, which suggests to me her tiny crown.
I'll add some pics to show how difficult it is to be certain of much. The first is her tiny nuptial crown, the second is much later in 1789 but surely the tiny crown, and the last looks too large but is usually stated as for her coronation.
Did Queen Caroline use the diadem and crown of Mary of Modena?
It's not clear but unlikely.
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And if she did, why would her grandson's wife not use those two pieces as well?
Do you mean Queen Adelaide? She did not like the idea of rented jewels one bit. She ignored the advice and provided all her own jewels for her crown, I believe.
Unfortunately, the link below will probably not actually clarify very much but I include it out of curiosity. I have been posting modern information about jewellery worn, according to researchers' studies of records and reports by some people present at events, which were not always clear in the way researchers would want to find.
I have not yet read the following in full but believe it records what had been traditional practice up to the Coronation of George III and Charlotte.
So it says, at pages 83/4, that Charlotte wore the Queen's Circlet to the Coronation, was crowned with the Queen's Crown, and departed wearing the Queen's rich Crown (ie State Crown). These three would be the Mary of Modena jewels.
But the modern day authors are certainly not clearly in agreement.
Considering that Queen Caroline was the first Queen from the Hanoverian dynasty to be crowned i assumed they would have used the crown used by Mary II and Anne to underline the continuation in the succession. That is why i was surprised to read that Charlotte may have opted for a crown from Germany.
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Unfortunately, the link below will probably not actually clarify very much but I include it out of curiosity. I have been posting modern information about jewellery worn, according to researchers' studies of records and reports by some people present at events, which were not always clear in the way researchers would want to find.
I have not yet read the following in full but believe it records what had been traditional practice up to the Coronation of George III and Charlotte.
So it says, at pages 83/4, that Charlotte wore the Queen's Circlet to the Coronation, was crowned with the Queen's Crown , and departed wearing the Queen's rich Crown (ie State Crown). These three would be the Mary of Modena jewels.
But the modern day authors are certainly not clearly in agreement.
A FAITHFUL ACCOUNT OF PROCESSIONS AND CEREMONIES OBSERVED IN THE CORONATION OF THE KINGS AND QUEENS OF ENGLAND: EXEMPLIFIED IN THAT OF THEIR LATE MOST SACRED MAJESTIES KING GEORGE THE THIRD, AND QUEEN CHARLOTTE: WITH ALL THE OTHER INTERESTING PROCEEDINGS CONNECTED WITH THAT MAGNIFICENT FESTIVAL.
The recent announcement regarding Queen Camilla using Queen Mary's crown for the May coronation included the following:
"This is the first time a Queen Consort’s Crown has been re-used since the 18th century, when Queen Caroline, consort of George II, wore Mary of Modena’s crown."
Which led me to wonder: What crown did Queen Charlotte wear at her coronation? That small one that went back to Hannover?
It looks like the Palace has also been using modern research about Queen Charlotte's crown(s) and the Mary of Modena pieces too.
I would add that it is not unusual for formal or official publications to differ from what actually happened at a royal event.
Have spent a lot of time with The Crown Jewels 1998 in particular - sections authored by Shirley Bury - and some other smaller sources I have and the details are complex. I am now satisfied that - Queen Charlotte did wear her tiny nuptial crown to her coronation. (Bury) Money was spent on hired jewels for the (coronation) Crown and rich Crown. (Bury) The Diadem of Mary of Modena was not worn or used. (Bury)
I assume the two crowns were the Mary of Modena crowns. Whether they were worn or used I cannot tell.
Nellie: if I understand your post properly, two crowns were created for Mary of Modena (a coronation crown and a state crown). Is that correct?
In all the illustrations of the Mary of Modena crowns, I've only seen the diadem and the state crown (cf: the Royal Collection Trust). Does that mean that the coronation crown no longer exists?
Also, the RCT website states that:
The [Mary of Modena state] crown was reset with jewels for each of the coronations of Mary II in 1689, Queen Anne in 1702 and Queen Caroline in 1727. After this, the consort's State crown was replaced - first by Queen Charlotte's nuptual crown, and then by a new crown designed for Queen Adelaide in 1831.
This would seem to indicate that Queen Charlotte used a previous crown as her coronation crown, and her nuptial crown as her state crown.
So the question remains: what was she crowned with?
Nellie: if I understand your post properly, two crowns were created for Mary of Modena (a coronation crown and a state crown). Is that correct?
Yes - and a diadem.
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In all the illustrations of the Mary of Modena crowns, I've only seen the diadem and the state crown (cf: the Royal Collection Trust). Does that mean that the coronation crown no longer exists?
It might be the one that is in the Museum of London (or was).
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Also, the RCT website states that: The [Mary of Modena state] crown was reset with jewels for each of the coronations of Mary II in 1689, Queen Anne in 1702 and Queen Caroline in 1727. After this, the consort's State crown was replaced - first by Queen Charlotte's nuptual crown, and then by a new crown designed for Queen Adelaide in 1831.
This would seem to indicate that Queen Charlotte used a previous crown as her coronation crown, and her nuptial crown as her state crown.
That extract is only about the MoM state crown? If so no hint of Charlotte's coronation crown.
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So the question remains: what was she crowned with?
Precisely!! I cannot tell, as I said before, but will speculate!
I have looked at a variety of sources and not found one with the definitive answer. Modern researchers have studied the jewels of Queen Charlotte and write of what she wore on certain occasions and how she has been depicted. They are not focusing on the moment of her crowning.
Eye witnesses were not either. They were referring to how Queen Charlotte was dressed in her personal jewels for the occasion. Those jewels included her nuptial crown - firmly pinned well back to the crown of her head (I believe) - from arrival to departure on the day. See second pic here for her nuptial crown.
It is possible that the MoM coronation crown (diameter 5.1 inches) was placed on her head in front of the nuptial crown.
In the third pic here the crown on the table is usually said to be her nuptial crown, which is understandable given all the above. But I think it is too large - considering proportions and that this a formal state portrait. The crown could be either of the two MoM crowns but most likely is the State Crown of Mary of Modena.
I found the following in my notes from 2011 and from the book Queens, Crowns and Coronations by Lewis Broad, 1952 (first published as Crowning the King, 1937). Please note that the information is from that book. In particular, note that it says Queen Charlotte wore the state crown. [EDIT: That is not necessarily for her crowning but could be for departing from the coronation and for a state occasion or two.]
Here is the regalia as remade after the Restoration --
For many coronations, the queen consort arrived wearing the diadem in the top right. The middle right one was used for the actual crowning. The bottom right one was worn in the procession leaving the Abbey.
The top right and bottom right are these two - Queen Mary of Modena's State Crown and Diadem, 1685, which today are with the Crown Jewels in the Tower of London. They now have cultured pearls and rock crystals. The diadem was last worn by Queen Adelaide, 1831, and that state crown was last worn by Queen Charlotte, 1761. That state crown is only 5 inches (127mm) across. It is referred to in the regalia pic as The Rich Crown.
The middle crown used for the crowning. The frame is now in the Museum of London.
SECOND
I could not find the coronation crown on the present-day website for Museum of London. I have no idea now just which book I got the following from.
Re: Mary of Modena
Posted by Nellie on February 21, 2023, 1:45 am, in reply to "Mary of Modena"
Posted by Nellie on February 21, 2023, 5:36 am, in reply to "Re: Mary of Modena"
Lord Twining in European Regalia does not really help us here. Quoting him about Mary of Modena -
" The ornament with which she was crowned was used again at the coronation of Mary II in 1689, Queen Caroline in 1727 and probably also at that of Queen Charlotte in 1761. (1) Her State Crown was re-fashioned and was worn by Mary II in 1689 and again, in preference to the king's State Crown, by Anne in 1702, on which occasion the Black Prince's ruby was set in the front cross. George I also preferred it to the older State Crown, perhaps because it was more convenient to wear with a full-bottomed wig, and it was also worn by Queen Caroline in 1727. Queen Charlotte used a small personal crown given to her at the time of her marriage as her second crown."
His footnote about the coronation crown: (1) It was then lost sight of and did not re-appear until 1956 when the frame of a small crown acquired by the London Museum was identified as that of Mary of Modena's coronation crown.
My comments: 1. The image in his book for the coronation crown is identical with the one I posted before. 2. Does "second crown" mean on coronation day? I think so. 3. So he thinks Queen Charlotte probably used the MoM coronation crown but not the MoM state crown. 4. I am working mostly from books rather than the internet. 5. We need an individual researcher or two working afresh from primary sources to publish their work with all sources cited.
Wonderful! Thank you! N/T
Posted by John R on February 21, 2023, 7:13 am, in reply to "Re: Mary of Modena"
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Lord Twining in European Regalia does not really help us here. Quoting him about Mary of Modena -
" The ornament with which she was crowned was used again at the coronation of Mary II in 1689, Queen Caroline in 1727 and probably also at that of Queen Charlotte in 1761. (1) Her State Crown was re-fashioned and was worn by Mary II in 1689 and again, in preference to the king's State Crown, by Anne in 1702, on which occasion the Black Prince's ruby was set in the front cross. George I also preferred it to the older State Crown, perhaps because it was more convenient to wear with a full-bottomed wig, and it was also worn by Queen Caroline in 1727. Queen Charlotte used a small personal crown given to her at the time of her marriage as her second crown."
His footnote about the coronation crown: (1) It was then lost sight of and did not re-appear until 1956 when the frame of a small crown acquired by the London Museum was identified as that of Mary of Modena's coronation crown.
My comments: 1. The image in his book for the coronation crown is identical with the one I posted before. 2. Does "second crown" mean on coronation day? I think so. 3. So he thinks Queen Charlotte probably used the MoM coronation crown but not the MoM state crown. 4. I am working mostly from books rather than the internet. 5. We need an individual researcher or two working afresh from primary sources to publish their work with all sources cited.
on February 16, 2023, 4:01 pm
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