Posted by Willy Lump Lump on September 22, 2009, 7:57 am
99.227.37.98

"Starting Oct. 5, Bill Carroll is out as morning man, the top position for a radio host. He moves to 9 a.m. The new guy on the morning hot seat is John Moore." Complete Toronto Sun Story

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Posted by geo on September 22, 2009, 9:02 am, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
70.26.133.86

. . . interesting that a thread about places mike marshall goes for lunch draws more comment than does news of a major shakeup @ RB . . . geo

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Posted by Larry LeBlanc on September 22, 2009, 9:18 am, in reply to "we have to talk . . . "
207.200.116.14

Losing CFRB for Newstalk 1010 would be a colossal error...a misunderstanding of the market. Yes, the brand needs refreshing but CFRB is a valuable franchise. Newstalk 1010 is and will remain meaningless.

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Posted by Willy Lump Lump on September 22, 2009, 9:45 am, in reply to "We have to talk . . . "
99.227.37.98

Especially since there is now very little news. Talk 1010 would make more sense.

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Posted by greg simpson on September 22, 2009, 10:31 am, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.249.133.183

unless one perceives the word "news", in this instance, as adjectival.

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Posted by nevermind on September 22, 2009, 10:35 am, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.244.48.253

CFRB seems to be doing a half ass job of fixing itself...Moore in the morning will be a lot better than Carroll...but Moore has way too high opinion of Moore...he just doesn't have the nice guy personality of Andy Barrie on the news talk side or say Don Danyard on the music side...Jim Richards has somewhat of a sense of humour but still come accross like Glen Beck lite...Tory will be good...the might actually give Matt Galloway a run for his money...the music the play on the show is very narrowcst...I don't like much of it..and I will often switch stations during an annoying piece...in the evenings Ryan Doyle is Bill Carroll Jr.... Wonder what they will do with weekends..really horrible stuff there...Steve and Lianne...the Buddah lounge (should win an award for worst radio show ever), Chris Robinson (never had a bad vacation experience ever...and hey how bout winning a trip for two to beautiful Scranton Wilkes Barre Pa) and Spider Jones..

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Posted by Don Daynard on September 22, 2009, 10:36 am, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
165.154.120.86

The Sun story mentions the latest ratings. Any other news for the other stations in the market?

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Posted by ig on September 22, 2009, 11:36 am, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.226.90.65 | Message modified by user radioguy September 22, 2009, 2:57 pm

Here's the best that is publicly availabe. http://www.rmb.ca/ppm.aspx?id=20878 Click on Toronto and it'll download a PDF file. The stations are listed, but not identified. For the biggies and bottoms in the last book it's not a huge guessing game to figure out who's who. Based on their own graph, which appears to sort the stations based on the new PPM data, the 18+ leader in spring, is now in 5th place in the market. S2'09 PPM 01 03 02 02 03 05 04 07 05 01 06 04 07 09 08 06 09 12 10 10 11 11 12 13 13 14 14 08 15 16 16 15 17 18 18 17 NB: They ran 18+ and not 12+ on the graph. Ig. It should be noted, and I haven't seen it so far, that this 'new' system is just as flawed, if not more-so than the old system. But like the old system, this is the new measuring stick whether we like it or not.

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Posted by RadioActive on September 22, 2009, 11:49 am, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
65.95.158.50 | Message modified by user RadioActive September 22, 2009, 11:50 am

Good to hear that someone else considers that execrable Buddah Lounge the kind of thing that would have made Marconi pause when he "invented" radio. I love how these branders and marketing people think. I've been plagued by them for years in broadcasting. "Just change the name and rebrand and people will come." No they won't. Not if it's the same old, same old. Dropping the heritage call letters won't make any difference. I don't believe CFRB will ever succeed in any form as a talk station as long as they maintain an excessive and unlistenable spot load that drives listeners to tune out. There's a rhythm to a talk show, and if the topic and the host are both on their game, it builds a momentum. But no matter how good the people are, if you take one or two calls, then break for four minutes of commercials, come back, take another call, break again for traffic, weather and six more spots, (repeat for three hours ad nauseum) you could be talking about the greatest secret ever revealed and most wouldn't have the patience to sit through the constant interruptions. It breaks the flow. And once that's gone, there's no real reason to stay tuned. Not to mention all the repeat programming at night, which may be the real disastrous and long lasting legacy of Astral Media's ownership. To wildly and widely paraphrase King Kong, "It wasn't beauty that killed this beast - it was greed."

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Posted by Peter the K on September 22, 2009, 12:16 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.232.7.74

With the exception of Saturdays between 1-5, the weekend sched on CFRB is pretty much a complete wash. I generally don't listen to radio in the morning anymore until I get into the office. Usually I tune into Stafford on 640 at 10:00 then CFRB at noon and that's about it. So, I'm listing to CFRB at noon and they're billboarding a major announcement by Bill Carrol Wednesday morning. Gee! Wonder what that might be about? I can't believe they didn't stickhandle this better and let the Sun scoop them by 24 hours. I'm glad I don't rely on RB anymore for news. --Peter

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Posted by Dial Twister on September 22, 2009, 12:40 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
64.229.9.205

For those of us who remember what 'RB was at its zenith, the horrible decline of this once proud Southern Ontario icon is like watching a dinosaur in its death throes. I sincerely hope it can be turned around but, good Lord, how many times can the wrong people make the wrong decisions before the pall bearers are finally called in? Is there anyone left at Yonge & St. Clair who actually comprehends what once was, and what has be squandered?

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Posted by Machine on September 22, 2009, 12:51 pm, in reply to "Icon"
216.183.131.222 | Message modified by user the_machine September 22, 2009, 12:52 pm

"Is there anyone left at Yonge & St. Clair who actually comprehends what once was, and what has be squandered?" Nope.

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Posted by nevermind on September 22, 2009, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.244.48.253 | Message modified by user nevermind September 22, 2009, 1:58 pm

I'll be fascinated as to how Carroll spins his hmmm promotion out of drive...they kinda tried a spin with Ted a couple of years ago (which no one really believed at the time anyway)...then a month ago he wrote his Sun column about what really happened...(Ted musta known what was going on at 1010 and I am sure he enjoyed serving a big plate of cold revenge)....it sure leaves Bill with no wiggle room

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Posted by ughman on September 22, 2009, 1:04 pm, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
38.99.160.130 | Message modified by user Ughman September 22, 2009, 1:06 pm

It's a shame. I am not a fan of Moore - He is really quite good on television with the benefit of scripts and editing but I don't enjoy him on radio. I can't quite put my finger on any one thing, so I have to chalk it up to personality conflict I suppose. I know he is really popular, but I don't get his humour, he distracts me during interviews and I am drained by his constant self-referencing (it's the same thing that turned me off of Dini Petty - but that's an apples-and-oranges comparison!) I'm also put off by Moore's constant mention and descriptions of the elements of rhetorical argument. We all get it. You've had exposure to some form of structured debate in school. Most of the callers probably haven't, so to rail on them for a poorly constructed argument is fundamentally unfair. Why not disagree and move on? For that matter, why not offer a refutation that is on par with the caller's opinion? Call-in talk shows invite comment from common citizens. If Moore has such high expectations of his callers, the call screeners should administer some form of educational and intellectual means test. Perhaps Moore will be better in the morning than the afternoons with less interaction with random callers. The morning show is faster paced and there are many other personalities involved with the new morning show format, so it's more of an MC position than a one-man-show. It might not seem so tedious. I purposely avoided John Moore when he filled in for Carroll. I should listen at least some of the time in order to develop an informed opinion, but I see a great deal more of John Oakley in my immediate future. As for that new format, I have read some complaints on this board. Anybody who longs for the days of Woloshyn or Crouter might be better served digging up airchecks for their morning listen. The Breakfast-Televisionisation of all media continues apace. I thought Bill did a good job conducting that little circus and it helped to balance some of his curmudgeonliness (as blunted as some of that has become with his new role as family man). Bill softens as Doyle drifts right? Maybe they will merge to become one single, much larger entity? Hmmm… I am drafting the script for an animated series now… "Oh no! Giant hippies are destroying the city! We must form Mecca-Billyan Carroyle!" O.K. It's rough, but it's a work in progress. Oh, and I like John Tory - he's a nice enough guy, but will those same nice-guy qualities that may have lost him a couple of elections make him an unlikely candidate for a daily show? On the other hand, it is the afternoon drive slot, so who wants a confrontational host? Do others think Tory is a good pick for that job? So now it's Oakley in the mornings, but I'll switch over to CFRB for the rest of the day I suppose. I don't know if Moore cares about anybody else's opinion, but I do know he had some rather dismissive things to say about the people who post on a certain yellow board so he must read at least some of it. I am sad, however, that I won't be getting any more email chastisement from Kowch when I badmouth CFRB.

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Posted by stan on September 22, 2009, 1:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.237.59.148

"the 18+ leader in spring, is now in 5th place in the market" I am confused, would that be CHFI?

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Posted by ig on September 22, 2009, 1:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.226.90.65

Don't know, you'd have to run S02 a+18 and compare the charts. Don't have that Dah-tah.

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Posted by BarryG on September 22, 2009, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
142.46.151.67

Astral Media is probably going to do to CFRB what CTV did to 1050 CHUM. The writing is on the wall; live programming now ends at 10PM and except for Donabie, Spider Jones and Peter Silverman the weekend lineup is largely unbearable eg. The Buddha lounge, infomercials, travel and medical shows etc. Maybe John Moore will infuse something different into the morning show but I remember listening when he was filling in (auditioning for the job) for Bill in the early summer and I was switching over to Mike Stafford quite a few times (he was filling in for John Oakley); I found John Moore a little bit too intellectual for the morning drive show. I think Bill Carroll will do very well going back to his old shift because he has that mid morning kind of personality, and he will have more phone-in interaction with the audience than he did on the morning show.

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Posted by shane alexander on September 22, 2009, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.250.171.5

have they announced anything on the station yet? i just read that they have a special announcement tomorrow after 7am...could be that the time they announce moore as the new morning man?

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Posted by BarryG on September 22, 2009, 2:20 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
142.46.151.67

I think you are right but because it's been all over the print media and the internet, it will be pretty much a non-event tomorrow morning when they "officially" announce it.

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Posted by NKB on September 22, 2009, 2:32 pm, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
70.50.232.71

Not sure how I feel about this. Moving Bill from the early to mid morning does nothing for me as I don't listen to him anyway. I like John in the afternoon on my way home. I don't listen to RB in the morning; I prefer to listen to music on Q107 so I guess I will be missing John Moore. I thought the all mighty Bill Carroll would have the morning slot forever. I don't really understand the move or understand how it will benefit the listener or CFRB for that matter.

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Posted by Peter the K on September 22, 2009, 3:22 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.232.7.74

I found John Moore a little bit too intellectual for the morning drive show." Barry, I think you hit on what made John Moore not quite work for me the few times I heard him in the morning. It takes me a couple of hours and at least 3 cups of coffee in the morning before my mind is ready for anything intellectual. I also agree that Carroll is better suited to mid-mornings. He's always been at his best when he's interacting with callers and this will give him more of an opportunity to do that. But now, the burning question. Does this mean that he will stop shopping at Tom's Place and once again pledge his allegiance to Saul Korman? --Peter

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Posted by Radio Wiz on September 22, 2009, 3:27 pm, in reply to "We have to talk . . . "
99.231.190.137

"Losing CFRB for Newstalk 1010 would be a colossal error" I agree. They got real far calling themselves "the Source" now didn't they?

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Posted by Jamie West on September 22, 2009, 3:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
24.215.9.108

With 800 ppm units in total covering the market, it's business as usual. Another flawed system for advertisers to plan their buys around.

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Posted by Bob in Mississauga on September 22, 2009, 4:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
199.246.61.1

What a shame to see the giant reduced to nothing by a herd of Astral midgets. Wally and Ted must be laughing until they cry. Me? I've given up on CFRB (the greatest call letters in Toronto radio history and a huge blunder to get rid of them. Bad news delivery (Agar excepted) and no Motts. What's the point?

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Posted by nevermind on September 22, 2009, 4:47 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
24.239.2.63

anyone got any guesses as to how they will spin it?

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Posted by Grandknight on September 22, 2009, 4:56 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
76.65.238.235

"I want to spend more time with my wife and children" "I'm still your morning man, starting at 9:00 am"

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Posted by shane alexander on September 22, 2009, 6:00 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
99.250.171.5

"i would like to wake up at 6.30 now rather than 3.30am"

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Posted by Donny on September 22, 2009, 6:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.231.30.81 | Message modified by user Muse September 22, 2009, 6:36 pm

The "Giant" fell years and years ago. It was kept on life support by a flawed diary system. Astral had little to do with CFRB's demise. The Motts lost their appeal after 9-11, when they had nothing left to say and listeners demanded more than 80 year old caller reaction. Don't believe me? Look at their ratings. As for your "Bad news delivery" comment, I beg to differ. Evelyn Macko is a legend in this town. Bob Komsick spent years as a great street reporter. And Agar's replacement? While a shock to some of you more "traditional" listeners, he definitely brings a breath of fresh air, unmatched creativity and international credibility to what has been a stale and stagnant newsroom. This guy was morning man at CBS, for God's sake! I don't know why more of you aren't embracing him.... oh, wait a minute, I do. None of you like change. A year from now, when he's had enough and is back in the states doing something huge at CNN, ABC or wherever, you same nay-sayers will post a comment wondering how the "Astral Midgets" could let him slip away. You are probably the same people who crapped all over Betty Kennedy when she came on the scene: "a newsroom is no place for a woman!" they said in their best Don Draper voice.

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Posted by Jack on September 22, 2009, 7:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
174.112.190.71

On a previous thread, I had speculated to the notion that something big was in the works for John Moore. I had come to this conclusion by comparing morning programs on Talk640 and CFRB. It was obvious that John Oakley's intellect and ability to relate to people was far superior to that of Bill Carrol's. Enter John Moore as a sub for the morning show out of the blue on CFRB and the pieces of the puzzle seemed to fit nicely. In listening to this experiment, I had one observation: it was painful radio - the chemistry just wasn't there. John Moore would make a "intellectual" remark and there would be pause or John would have to dumb down his remark to bring others into the fold. My language may be a bit harsh but it illustrates the point. So in my view, they are going to need to re-tool the supporting cast or they going to need to manage the interactions so that this type of awkwardness is not recurring. Oakley seems to be able to get away with these situations by filling in the gaps before any has a chance to notice.

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Posted by adma on September 22, 2009, 7:47 pm, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.232.162.133

Weisblott's spin...

Link: http://www.mondoville.com/2009/09/right-wing-rage-fails-to-register-on

Posted by StevieB on September 22, 2009, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
67.212.22.250

I respectfully disagree with your assesment. Astral has stripped the talent pool down to a puddle. The Motts lost their appeal after 9/11? Really? So they were allowed to stay on, have their bigass ranch outfitted with a ISDN line so they could still broadcast in the event of a nasty snowstorm? 8 years is a long time to pay someone(x2) for a radio show that nobody listens to. As for the news Dept. Macko is a seasoned pro, CFRB is lucky to have her. Bob Komsick is a great reporter, but what else...? Mavridis is awesome, he's a Toronto favourite, I love the guy and his work,BUT He isn't Dave Agar. There should be plenty of room for both. How about longtime newsguy David Bendt? Shuffled out, what 2 years ago? The "New Newstalk 1010" gets all the ratings it deserves. Call me in a year.

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Posted by Dial Twister on September 22, 2009, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
64.229.9.205

StevieB said, "Mavridis is awesome, he's a Toronto favourite, I love the guy and his work,BUT He isn't Dave Agar. There should be plenty of room for both. How about longtime newsguy David Bendt? Shuffled out...." Amen. And, since Donny mentioned Betty Kennedy, I'll see his Mavridis and raise him a Jane Brown.

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Posted by Rahn on September 22, 2009, 9:12 pm, in reply to "Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
209.195.109.10

Great news! Another plus is John has stated he does not do endorsements so we will not be subjected to the Omni/Home Improvement People shilling!! Sanity in the morning! Long overdue as Bill's show jumped the Kowch ages ago.

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Posted by nevermind on September 22, 2009, 9:28 pm, in reply to "Re: We have to talk . . . "
74.12.47.67

I suspect you guys are right in how he will spin it...but after the Woloshyn thing will anyone believe it?

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Posted by nevermind on September 22, 2009, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
74.12.47.67

that is a huge plus...i think Carroll lost credibilty by shilling for cheapjack outfits like Omni and the Home Improvemnt People...credibilty is so important but he sold out for a few bucks...despite the fact he must be pulling in a salary well into the triple digits..

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Posted by Donny on September 23, 2009, 12:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Say goodbye to CFRB as you know it ..."
99.231.30.81

Good points, Stevie. But you know the way that place worked before Astral took things over. Slaight was a real "family guy". A NUT!, but a family guy non-the-less. He didn't like firing people. Rarely did it. That's how the Motts stayed on. They listened to their "P1's". The die-hard listeners who complained when things changed even slightly. And as far as I know, when it comes to radio that no one listens to, 8 years IS a long time to pay someone (x1). (they were a package deal) As for Mavridis, you're right, he is no Agar. CFRB already has one of those. He's on in the afternoon and sounds great there. Vive la différence!

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