Posted by Dave on 5/19/2009, 5:39 pm, in reply to "Re: closet smoker support "
68.11.149.9
Just FWIW, Crolma, I think you're probably 100% correct. But I also don't think that my opinion on this subject is important enough to warrant debate. In some ways, the only thing that's important is how we perceive our own habits.
Dave
--Previous Message--
: Hard to know what to say about this debate. I
: would distinguish between psychological
: addiction and physical addition. My plan is
: to quit by Sunday, but only for 3 weeks,
: then smoke about once every 10 days (plus
: the occasional binge). I'm psychologically
: addicted in any case, and I'm almost proud
: of it, for some reason.
:
: On the other hand, I've been thru a lot of
: physical addiction lately. The two feel
: different. Simple psychological is the
: feeling that a cigarette would be fun.
: Physical addiction is a raging nicotine fit
: that turns my nervous system into an
: earthquake, makes me fidget, makes me
: irritable, makes my heart beat fast, makes
: my breath shallow and fast, and makes me
: mildly sick to my stomach. I get it bad! A
: cigarette stops it all.
:
: So you may both be correct, depending on
: what kind of addiction you mean.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Heh. I should know better than to reference
: research when talking about tobacco to
: (most) tobacco users. Citations or not, most
: of us will believe what we want to believe.
: Which is fine with me, really; if you say
: you're a nonsmoker, a non-addicted smoker, a
: part-time smoker, or a silver-winged
: unicorn...then you are. Who am I to argue
: with your self-identity?
:
: Dave
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Being one myself, I can vouch for your
: statement that most chippers will strongly
: disagree that we are addicted.
:
: I don't see any significance in the fact
: that light smokers feel that they would
: really like a cigarette at certain times.
: There are certain times when I would really
: like a piece of cheesecake or a good steak
: or corn on the cob. But so what? Though I
: agree that addiction is a matter of degree,
: it's not a useful term when the combined
: intensity/frequency of desire is low. While
: repeating activities we enjoy may indeed
: bear similarities to addiction, it's hardly
: necessary to say that there are differences
: too.
:
: Let me say that my motivation to disagree is
: not that I want to hold myself above
: addicted smokers. On the contrary,
: addiction always fascinated me and was part
: of what drew me to smoking. Silly as it
: sounds, I actually made an effort to get
: addicted. It didn't work, to my
: considerable chagrin. To have someone imply
: that I am addicted and either don't know it
: or am denying it just makes me chuckle. No,
: definitely not. I have wished, even, but it
: ain't so.
:
: I am admittedly skeptical of statements
: about what "research shows" or
: "researchers say" without knowing
: the specifics of the research. That's
: particularly the case when such statements
: contradict my own experience. Studies are
: frequently not as objective as the
: researchers would like us to believe.
:
: Norm
:
: --Previous Message--
: In fact, I WAS stating my belief that
: seeking
: out and repeating activities we enjoy and
: therefore want to do again, bears some
: important similarities to addiction. Or, to
: put it another way, I don't think that the
: motivation for smoking is all that different
: from the motivation to do anything that we
: find enjoyable. I've _known_ people who will
: (for instance) squirm their way through a
: meeting in anticipation of going out for
: Italian food afterward.
:
: From what I know of current research, the
: differences in intensities of craving for
: such activities is partly due to how quickly
: the brain is flooded with pleasure-giving
: chemicals, and the level of those chemicals.
: The quicker and more powerful the flood, the
: more the brain associates the activity that
: preceded it with pleasurable feelings. The
: implication, of course, is that what we call
: "addiction" is, like so many other
: things, a matter of degree. The question is
: less WHETHER we are "addicted" to
: things we enjoy, but the degree to which we
: associate them with pleasure--and therefore
: how difficult we'd find it to give up those
: things.
:
: Psychologically, one of the primary means of
: separating "addictive" behaviors
: from other habitual behaviors is whether the
: individual persists in pursuing a behavior
: in the face of evidence that the behavior is
: destructive.
:
: Either way, you'd be hard-pressed to find a
: researcher or addiction specialist who would
: say that "chippers" (or very light
: smokers) are not addicted. Not surprisingly,
: most chippers strongly disagree with that
: idea--but they'll also admit that in certain
: situations, and at certain times, they
: really feel that they would like a cigarette
: and that they'll feel they're missing
: something if they don't have one.
:
: I agree with the researchers, but it's not
: as though I'm strongly invested in what a
: light smoker chooses to call him- or
: herself. As long as there's no
: holier-than-thou "I just like smoking,
: I would never be addicted to it", they
: can call themselves what they want. I simply
: call them "smokers"--same as the
: rest of us.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Dave,
:
: I think you contradict yourself when you say
: that (1) anything that brings you
: satisfaction and pleasure will lead you to
: seek it out again; and (2) anyone who smokes
: is hooked no matter how long they could go
: without it. Unless you're also saying that
: occasionally enjoying our favorite foods and
: hobbies is a form of addiction.
:
: For some people, smoking is like what you
: describe with food and drink. They like it
: and therefore want to repeat the enjoyment.
: They may have no problem going without for
: hours or days or even weeks. That is far
: different from struggling to sit through
: long meetings or movies or airplane flights
: because you're itching for a smoke.
:
: In other words, frequent and intense desire
: are defining elements of addiction. The
: addicts are those who are saying, "I
: gotta have it, and gotta have it NOW."
: Or pretty close, anyway.
:
: Norm
:
: --Previous Message--
: It's probably true that for a lot of us, our
: addiction runs deeper than this, but just
: skimming the surface: Rare is the person who
: can thoroughly enjoy something and not want
: more of it, at least on occasion. Can you
: imagine deciding never to eat your favorite
: foods ever again? To give up your favorite
: hobby for good? Anything you truly like,
: that brings you satisfaction and pleasure,
: lights up the same pleasure pathways in the
: brain--leading you to seek it out again.
:
: I think that some people who have never been
: smokers assume that at some point something
: just clicks for a beginning smoker and
: wham--they're addicted. But of course that
: doesn't happen--becoming addicted to
: cigarettes is as subtle a process as
: learning to salivate on your way home on
: Friday, in anticipation of the pot roast
: that you're used to having every week on
: that day. That's why when light smokers say
: they're not hooked, the first thing I want
: to as is if they'd be willing and able to
: give it up for good, and never smoke again.
: If the answer is "no", then
: tobacco has already got its claws in them,
: no matter what they might think or how long
: they say they can go without. They just
: don't realize they're addicted yet.
:
: Dave
:
:
:
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