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Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Ralph Moore on November 30, 2023, 10:26 am I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Des Hutchinson on November 30, 2023, 11:26 am, in reply to "Is the Message Board dead?" I suggest maybe that rather than the MB being 'dead', possibly a majority of its erstwhile contributors are physically or metaphorically in that state! As the father of a 'classical' music student, I can assure you all that our passion is very much alive and well, but so differently expressed and consumed by the current generation. I could go on and on about this, but I would single out that what least impresses or distracts them is our ramblings, as so often found on the MB, that "things ain't wot they used to be". Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Ralph Moore on November 30, 2023, 12:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Well, I am certainly guilty of that besetting sin when it comes to discussing what I perceive as the decline of operatic voices, but in many ways orchestral and chamber music have never been better served - and the problem with recorded music is that we are spoilt for choice with catalogues saturated with first class recordings going back decades, such that anything new is up against it. There is still a preponderance of grey, white or bald at concerts but no; classical music is by no means the preserve of those with one foot in the grave, I do agree. Previous Message I suggest maybe that rather than the MB being 'dead', possibly a majority of its erstwhile contributors are physically or metaphorically in that state! As the father of a 'classical' music student, I can assure you all that our passion is very much alive and well, but so differently expressed and consumed by the current generation. I could go on and on about this, but I would single out that what least impresses or distracts them is our ramblings, as so often found on the MB, that "things ain't wot they used to be". Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Proffitt on November 30, 2023, 2:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" I have recommended to the Powers That Be at MWI, for some time now, that MWI *consider* the advantage of migrating this closeted in-house forum to Facebook - which, by the way, has similar moderating tools for Administrators to review and approve submissions of comments. The existing Facebook fora ("Groups") dedicated to Classical Music recordings and general discussion have large *active* constituencies, some measuring in the thousands+, which include generalist fans, professional musicians, scholars, composers [!], and lovers of recorded classical music. And MWI would in my opinion be a welcome, interactive presence in such a forum on Facebook. My two cents worth, from a loyal and dedicated reader of Music Web International *and* the Facebook classical music Groups! Previous Message Well, I am certainly guilty of that besetting sin when it comes to discussing what I perceive as the decline of operatic voices, but in many ways orchestral and chamber music have never been better served - and the problem with recorded music is that we are spoilt for choice with catalogues saturated with first class recordings going back decades, such that anything new is up against it. There is still a preponderance of grey, white or bald at concerts but no; classical music is by no means the preserve of those with one foot in the grave, I do agree. Previous Message I suggest maybe that rather than the MB being 'dead', possibly a majority of its erstwhile contributors are physically or metaphorically in that state! As the father of a 'classical' music student, I can assure you all that our passion is very much alive and well, but so differently expressed and consumed by the current generation. I could go on and on about this, but I would single out that what least impresses or distracts them is our ramblings, as so often found on the MB, that "things ain't wot they used to be". Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Proffitt on November 30, 2023, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" as one example: https://m.facebook.com/groups/878042938946518/?ref=share or https://m.facebook.com/groups/110859412305172/?ref=share or, my go-to Group https://m.facebook.com/groups/antonbrucknersociety/?ref=share

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Quinn on November 30, 2023, 4:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" John, in the past we have carefully considered the idea of moving to Facebook, as you have suggested. However, a key consideration for us is that not everyone uses Facebook. It’s true that we might get some additional exposure for MusicWeb by moving the Message Board to Facebook. However, we would, at a stroke, exclude all MusicWeb readers who don’t use Facebook and we believe that’s too high a price to pay

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Jeffrey Lague on November 30, 2023, 5:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" I don't use Facebook and have no desire to do so. I do feel that many of the messages posted here are of such exclusive interest that they don't invite comment from others. If I read that contributor X considers Conductor Y's interpretation of composer Z's 43rd symphony the best available my only response, never having heard of Y and/or Z is "OK" and then to move on. Perhaps the addition of topics of more general interest might resuscitate the gradually expiring message board. Previous Message John, in the past we have carefully considered the idea of moving to Facebook, as you have suggested. However, a key consideration for us is that not everyone uses Facebook. It’s true that we might get some additional exposure for MusicWeb by moving the Message Board to Facebook. However, we would, at a stroke, exclude all MusicWeb readers who don’t use Facebook and we believe that’s too high a price to pay

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Quinn on November 30, 2023, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" That's a very fair point, Jeffrey. But at the risk of making a very obvious point, we are in the hands of our contributors. The Message Board can often be very quiet for a while and then, all of a sudden, something - often a review , though not always- will spark a debate. It does tend to be a reactive forum

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Nils-Göran Olve on December 1, 2023, 8:09 am, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" I've avoided Facebook but read almost all Messages here! Aren't they supposed to relate to MWI reviews? Certainly they could engender more reactions (also from me), but partly the lack of entries may reflect our general satisfaction. If you want a livelier forum topics could be extended to constructive suggestions and criticism of your selection of discs, including déja reviews which vary from valuable reminders to weirdly outdated. Surely Messages should not be turned into a general debate forum concerning recordings let alone live concerts, if they are to remain manageable for MWI's monitor?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Ralph Moore on December 1, 2023, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Point taken about how old some of the Déja reviews are but we always ensure that the recordings are still available or they don't get re-posted - and judging by the general reaction, a lot of people quite like to revisit "a blast from the past" - and maybe they even prompt purchases of things missing in collections. I do occasionally request a reaction to a general observation and I know all we reviewers like to get feedback - sometimes even if it is adversely critical - although we prefer it if pointing out actual errors are sent directly to the editor for correction. Yes; ideally this forum should be used to discuss issues arising from our reviews but occasionally wider musical matters are broached - and of course sometimes folk are merely seeking information from readers. I just wish there were a bit more of all that. Thank you for your comments, anyway - and I am glad you read the Message Board regularly. Previous Message I've avoided Facebook but read almost all Messages here! Aren't they supposed to relate to MWI reviews? Certainly they could engender more reactions (also from me), but partly the lack of entries may reflect our general satisfaction. If you want a livelier forum topics could be extended to constructive suggestions and criticism of your selection of discs, including déja reviews which vary from valuable reminders to weirdly outdated. Surely Messages should not be turned into a general debate forum concerning recordings let alone live concerts, if they are to remain manageable for MWI's monitor?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by tuxedo on December 1, 2023, 2:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Some observations to the thread - firstly, I am grateful for John Quinn's response and reassurance that the MB will NOT be moved on to anti-social media. As for the Déja reviews - I certainly enjoy reading them and feel they are a worthwhile addition. Regarding the reviewers themselves, I am loathe to criticise any of them, (on the basis that if it's a piece or a composer I don't care for, then they have already suffered enough!). Apart from the reviewers themselves, I would like to take this opportunity to post a note of gratitude to Jeffrey (God bless him!) - there is invariably something in his contributions that cheers me - still chuckling at the recent revelation that Gershwin was thinking of writing a quartet but in a rather simple style, along the lines of Mozart... On a more technical note - the site was recently unavailable for several days and even though it has returned there have been occasions when the MB itself has been unavailable... unsure if the two are connected, but it seems too much of a coincidence? Even now, if I select the MB link on the opening page of the MW site I never reach the MB, but if I select a review and then the link on that page the MB appears - however, it can still sometimes take as long as ten seconds for the MB to load (using up-to-date browser on an up-to-date system and no problems on other sites). So a glitch appears to be lurking still within the site. regards

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Quinn on December 1, 2023, 2:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" On behalf of MusicWeb, thank you for this feedback, Tuxedo: much appreciated I'll enquire of my technical colleagues concerning your last two paragraphs. I must confess, though, that I'm slightly perplexed by your problem in accessing the Message Board. In order to post this response I had to go onto the MB, of course. I clicked on the Message Board button at the top of the home page on the new site and I accessed the MB without any problems. Nonetheless, I'll enquire for you. [

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by tuxedo on December 1, 2023, 3:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" John Thank you for your response. The comment about you being puzzled and having no problems accessing the MB led to me being puzzled! :-) However, after some thought I have solved the problem and I am pleased to be able to reassure you. It is, after all, at my end - I run an Adblocker in the browser and when I turned this off and reloaded the main MW page, I also had instant access to the MB via the link. Still puzzled though, as to why the MB should need to be so thoroughly checked. Apologies.

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by John Quinn on December 1, 2023, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" I'm delighted you were able to resolve that issue, Tuxedo. You'll have seen that Len has responded concerning the temporary unavailability of the site a few days ago

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Len Mullenger on December 1, 2023, 3:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" The site did indeed go down for a couple of days and we are still not sure why. It was not a problem with Musicweb itself but of our hosting company GoDaddy. Similarly the message board is not part of Musicweb either but is an add-on hosted by boardhost.com that I pay for. I was not aware that it had ever been unavailable but if so it again was not a problem with MusicWeb. Often when things do not work they are still there if you try a different browser. Len

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by tuxedo on December 1, 2023, 4:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Len Not sure if this is any help in discussions with your hosting company, but when the site was unavailable recently a message appeared (not verbatim but pretty close): "the site you are trying to reach has an insecure certificate and is therefore unavailable". Have already advised John that I have resolved the matter of my difficult in reaching the MB, so for the moment, all is good. regards

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Jeffrey Lague on December 1, 2023, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" I would like to thank Tuxedo for his kind words. I would, however, like to respond to his finding Gershwin's contemplation of writing a string quartet along the lines of Mozart an idea worth a chuckle by remarking that the idea might not have been quite so funny as it sounds; after all, didn't Ravel mention Mozart in connection with his G major concerto which is very much influenced by jazz idioms ? Nobody knows what Gershwin would have gone on to compose had he not died so tragically young and he might have aimed at a more simple neo-classical style had he lived. It's certainly known that - probably due to his musical upbringing in Tin Pan Alley rather than in the respectable atmosphere of a music conservatoire - he was keen to "educate" himself by studying significant works from earlier periods of music and some of Haydn's quartets were known to have come under his scrutiny. When Porgy and Bess was premiered he was presented with a score of Monterverdi's Orfeo with a note to the effect that it was a gift of the very first opera ever written (which it probably wasn't) to the composer of the very latest (which it probably was.) I can certainly believe that Gershwin might have studied the score avidly - which is something I've never been inclined to do. It's well known that Gershwin tried , without much success, to get some of the foremost composers of the day to give him lessons. I think it was Stravinsky who replied that, due to the money that Gershwin was making out of his compositions, it would be better if the instruction was the other way round. One composer who did give Gershwin lessons was Henry Cowell, the advocate of playing chords on the piano with one's forearms and attacking the strings of the instrument from the inside with India rubbers and various other blunt instruments. One fact that emerged from the Wikipedia article on Cowell will, depending on one's outlook, cause either amusement, intrigue or utter horror; apparently he liked to dress in women's clothing, preferably in a shade of pink, and be addressed as Mrs. Jones. I imagine it is highly unlikely that Jerome Kern's song, "Lovely to look at" was inspired by Cowell's alter ego. Previous Message Some observations to the thread - firstly, I am grateful for John Quinn's response and reassurance that the MB will NOT be moved on to anti-social media. As for the Déja reviews - I certainly enjoy reading them and feel they are a worthwhile addition. Regarding the reviewers themselves, I am loathe to criticise any of them, (on the basis that if it's a piece or a composer I don't care for, then they have already suffered enough!). Apart from the reviewers themselves, I would like to take this opportunity to post a note of gratitude to Jeffrey (God bless him!) - there is invariably something in his contributions that cheers me - still chuckling at the recent revelation that Gershwin was thinking of writing a quartet but in a rather simple style, along the lines of Mozart... On a more technical note - the site was recently unavailable for several days and even though it has returned there have been occasions when the MB itself has been unavailable... unsure if the two are connected, but it seems too much of a coincidence? Even now, if I select the MB link on the opening page of the MW site I never reach the MB, but if I select a review and then the link on that page the MB appears - however, it can still sometimes take as long as ten seconds for the MB to load (using up-to-date browser on an up-to-date system and no problems on other sites). So a glitch appears to be lurking still within the site. regards

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by tuxedo on December 2, 2023, 1:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Jeffrey Good to hear from you. My chuckling about Gershwin and the idea of his writing a quartet was not because I felt such a project was beyond him - far from it - it was the words "in a rather simple style" which caused amusement. As you say, it was a tragic loss that he died so young. Gershwin was not alone in having such ambitions - many musicians and composers earning their living in the 'jazz world' in those days were also interested in more serious music. Although I wouldn't be surprised if some of them regarded their jazz compositions as any less serious... and I certainly wouldn't have questioned Artie Shaw on this subject! Now, just when I thought your response was entirely serious, I read the last paragraph. Sorry, but I am chucking again, Jeffrey! best wishes

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Jeffrey Lague on December 3, 2023, 1:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Yes, Tuxedo, I see what you mean about the "Simple style" of Mozart's Quartets. Schoenberg, in his grouchy response to Gershwin's remark, pointed out that Mozart's quartets were considered far-from-simple in their day. Gershwin's toleration of what he probably knew of Cowell's foibles might well have been matched by certain unusual traits in his own nature. There are reports of Gershwin's assignations with girlfriends that, judging from the noises emanating from such meetings, suggest that Gershwin shared certain non-musical traits with Percy Grainger and Eugene Goossens. Certainly his attending performances and financing recordings of Schoenberg's String Quartets suggest a marked Masochistic trait in his personality.

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Michel Marleau on December 1, 2023, 2:21 pm, in reply to "Is the Message Board dead?" Well, I for one have enjoyed your recent survey of Martha and I Puritani, two operas I love, and was particularly happy of your admiration of Matteo Manuguerra's Riccardo, so elegant yet vibrant, a much underrated baritone indeed. Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Ralph Moore on December 1, 2023, 2:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Merci bien, Marcel!He and Zancanaro are two baritones I love but are generally neglected. Previous Message Well, I for one have enjoyed your recent survey of Martha and I Puritani, two operas I love, and was particularly happy of your admiration of Matteo Manuguerra's Riccardo, so elegant yet vibrant, a much underrated baritone indeed. Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Michel Marleau on December 1, 2023, 3:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Actually, it's Michel but no matter .. ha ha ! I love Zancanaro too. Mario Sereni and Mario Zanasi are two others I find somewhat overlooked and underrated. Previous Message Merci bien, Marcel!He and Zancanaro are two baritones I love but are generally neglected. Previous Message Well, I for one have enjoyed your recent survey of Martha and I Puritani, two operas I love, and was particularly happy of your admiration of Matteo Manuguerra's Riccardo, so elegant yet vibrant, a much underrated baritone indeed. Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Ralph Moore on December 1, 2023, 3:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Whoops - brain freeze or Senior Moment; my apologies, Michel. Maybe Marcel Marceau was lurking in the recesses of my mind? (I once checked him in when as a youth I was working for Air France as an agent d'acceuil at Heathrow - we did it all by sign language - OK; I made that bit up...) Yes, most definitely, to those two baritones - and you know about my admiration for Robert Massard. Previous Message Actually, it's Michel but no matter .. ha ha ! I love Zancanaro too. Mario Sereni and Mario Zanasi are two others I find somewhat overlooked and underrated. Previous Message Merci bien, Marcel!He and Zancanaro are two baritones I love but are generally neglected. Previous Message Well, I for one have enjoyed your recent survey of Martha and I Puritani, two operas I love, and was particularly happy of your admiration of Matteo Manuguerra's Riccardo, so elegant yet vibrant, a much underrated baritone indeed. Previous Message I appreciate that there is a certain solipsistic irony in my posting this question if no-one is actually reading it, but given that comments here have virtually dried up, I am just wondering: have people nothing to ask, observe or debate in this medium any more? Other fora seem to attract quite lively discussion - as indeed, we have in the past - but several weeks have passed without a squeak; are all we music-lovers shrouded in benighted indifference?

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Dave Cook on December 4, 2023, 2:48 am, in reply to "Is the Message Board dead?" I don't think this very basic message board really lends itself to a lot of activity. I understand the desire to move to Facebook rather than hosting your own forum software, but I loathe Facebook. I did participate in a Facebook classical forum years ago, but there was too much drama, and it was too easy to get sucked into it myself, since Facebook is designed to do that. These days I hang out mostly on the Good Music Guide forum.

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Len Mullenger on December 4, 2023, 3:22 am, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Edited by board administrator December 4, 2023, 4:27 am I do not understand the problem. Is the message Board any more basic than our reviews? It is the content that matters not the style and I am sure our readers are not swayed by something as irrelevant as appearance. Len Previous Message I don't think this very basic message board really lends itself to a lot of activity. I understand the desire to move to Facebook rather than hosting your own forum software, but I loathe Facebook. I did participate in a Facebook classical forum years ago, but there was too much drama, and it was too easy to get sucked into it myself, since Facebook is designed to do that. These days I hang out mostly on the Good Music Guide forum.

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by Dave Cook on December 4, 2023, 5:53 am, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" And yet the MW readers don't come. Perhaps spend some time on other classical forums like GMG to see how they function. It's not just about appearances. On the other hand, I think it's perfectly fine not to want that much activity since it's not the main mission of the website.

Re: Is the Message Board dead? Posted by tuxedo on December 4, 2023, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Is the Message Board dead?" Len "I do not understand the problem. Is the message Board any more basic than our reviews? It is the content that matters not the style and I am sure our readers are not swayed by something as irrelevant as appearance." Fully agree. When so many sites these days - regardless of content - are 'decorated' with so much fluff & nonsense, this site is a veritable oasis. Thank you. regards

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