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The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!

Posted by Alyend <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Alyend' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 8:36 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/06/arts/design/florentine-diamond-resurfaces-hapsburg.html

https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/06/habsburg-familys-florentine-diamond-found-in-bank-vault-after-a-century

Re: The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!

Posted by Hanken <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Hanken' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 9:33 am, in reply to "The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!"

Wow
What a story

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https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/06/arts/design/florentine-diamond-resurfaces-hapsburg.html

https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/06/habsburg-familys-florentine-diamond-found-in-bank-vault-after-a-century

Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada

Posted by The Royal Watcher <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=The+Royal+Watcher' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 11:08 am, in reply to "The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!"

Archduke Karl von Habsburg, the Head of the House of Habsburg, has revealed that the legendary Florentine Diamond and fifteen other historic Jewels of the House of Habsburg long thought sold, stolen or lost have been hidden for decades in a Bank Vault in Canada, since Empress Zita found refuge there during the Second World War.

The collection includes a number of other items of jewelry, including a diamond-encrusted Order of the Golden Fleece, the house order of the Hapsburg family.

Karl Habsburg-Lothringen said he was most moved by the medal commemorating the order, founded in 1430 in Bruges, Belgium, by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy.

Some of the pieces in the collection were crafted, added to, or modified by his own ancestors. He shows a photograph of a clock, set within a large, pear-shaped emerald with another emerald as a cover, polished to a wafer-thin finish. Maria Theresa gave it to the future French queen, her daughter Marie Antoinette, who would later meet her end under the guillotine.

There is a bodice bow made of rubies, emeralds, and diamonds in the Hungarian national colors, which once belonged to Sisi. And there is the fateful stone, that large yellow diamond of 137 carats.

The diamond and the 15 other items in the safe are genuine. Köchert has no doubt about this; he has documented it in two expert reports.

Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada

Posted by Hans <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Hans' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 1:43 pm, in reply to "Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada "

Wonderfull! But why did the empress told the secret only to 2 of her younger sons and not to the heir, Otto.

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Archduke Karl von Habsburg , the Head of the House of Habsburg, has revealed that the legendary Florentine Diamond and fifteen other historic Jewels of the House of Habsburg long thought sold, stolen or lost have been hidden for decades in a Bank Vault in Canada , since Empress Zita found refuge there during the Second World War.

The collection includes a number of other items of jewelry, including a diamond-encrusted Order of the Golden Fleece, the house order of the Hapsburg family.
Karl Habsburg-Lothringen said he was most moved by the medal commemorating the order, founded in 1430 in Bruges, Belgium, by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy.

Some of the pieces in the collection were crafted, added to, or modified by his own ancestors. He shows a photograph of a clock, set within a large, pear-shaped emerald with another emerald as a cover, polished to a wafer-thin finish. Maria Theresa gave it to the future French queen, her daughter Marie Antoinette, who would later meet her end under the guillotine.
There is a bodice bow made of rubies, emeralds, and diamonds in the Hungarian national colors, which once belonged to Sisi. And there is the fateful stone, that large yellow diamond of 137 carats.
The diamond and the 15 other items in the safe are genuine. Köchert has no doubt about this; he has documented it in two expert reports.

Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada

Posted by Hanken <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Hanken' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 11:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada "

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este

Posted by Hans <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Hans' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 6, 2025, 11:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada "

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este

Posted by Johan <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Johan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 7, 2025, 4:11 am, in reply to "Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este"

I doubt it. Karl has been rather dismissive of the junior branches of the Habsburg-Lorraine dynasty. His new wife might be seen in some of them, but i guess the most likely chance to see them is going to be in a (well secured) museum.

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este

Posted by John R <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=John+R' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 7, 2025, 7:21 am, in reply to "Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este"

Magnificent! Auction seems the most likely option for most pieces. The jewels are worth a fortune and when do they have an opportunity to wear them, really? Long term loan to the Imperial Treasury in Vienna would be an alternative if the family has no need for money, which I doubt. Putting them back in a vault would be a pity.

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada

Posted by Maria Olivia <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Maria+Olivia' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 7, 2025, 9:49 am, in reply to "Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada "

Why were Archduchess Regina Wedding tiara and her diamond starry cross sold . They only have a small bandeau tiara.

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Owner?

Posted by Johan <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Johan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 7, 2025, 11:50 am, in reply to "Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este"

I guess a lot will depend on who owned them and who inherited them. If they were personal property of Empress Zita and Karl inherited them he'll have to pay inheritance tax. Possibly all of her children inherited a stake, than a sale is almost certain. If somehow they have been put in some sort of trust or foundation there may be conditions attached that might exclude a sale.

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Owner?

Posted by mauriz <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=mauriz' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 7, 2025, 12:09 pm, in reply to "Owner?"

Previous Message

I guess a lot will depend on who owned them and who inherited them. If they were personal property of Empress Zita and Karl inherited them he'll have to pay inheritance tax.

Karl Habsburg is an Austrian citizen. There is no inheritance tax in Austria. The more important question is whether the Republic of Austria has a claim to ownership. The Minister of Culture has already instructed the Attorney General’s Office to investigate this matter and the formation of a commission of independent experts is being considered.

Re: Owner?

Posted by Hanken <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Hanken' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 8, 2025, 1:20 am, in reply to "Re: Owner?"

But why?
I mean why does the Republic of Austria think they have the ownership? I suspect there is no simple answer to that question.

Previous Message

I guess a lot will depend on who owned them and who inherited them. If they were personal property of Empress Zita and Karl inherited them he'll have to pay inheritance tax.

Re: Owner?

Posted by mauriz <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=mauriz' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 8, 2025, 2:57 am, in reply to "Re: Owner?"

Previous Message

But why?
I mean why does the Republic of Austria think they have the ownership? I suspect there is no simple answer to that question.

The Habsburgs’ assets were divided into three categories: the so-called Hofärar referred to state property and state funds that were used by the imperial family to cover the costs of the court and imperial representation. This was directly administered by the court. The gebundene Familienvermögen, i.e. the family’s tied assets, were intended to enhance “the splendour and prestige of the imperial house” in order to “increase its power and influence”. And there were of course the private assets of the members of the House of Habsburg.

The Hofärar and the family’s tied assets were expropriated under the so-called Habsburg Law in April 1919.

On the orders of Emperor Karl, 38 pieces of jewellery were removed from the display cases of the Imperial Treasury early in the morning of 1 November 1918 and taken to Switzerland on 4 November. The question now is whether these pieces of jewellery were actually private property. There is at least some evidence to suggest that this was not the case. The Empress’s private jewellery was deposited in Schönbrunn Palace in 1918, not in the treasury. The family itself apparently had doubts about the private property status – or at least considered a different legal opinion possible: While the Empress’s private jewellery was openly sold during their exile, e.g. through Cartier in Paris, jewellery from the treasury was dismantled and the stones removed for sale.

Richard Bassett, whose expert opinion on this question was sought by the family after the remaining pieces of jewellery resurfaced, argues that the Habsburg Law did not apply to the jewellery because it was already outside the country in April 1919. However, this argument is contradicted by the fact that Emperor Karl himself had initiated a law in February 1918 prohibiting the export of jewellery from Austria.

Re: Owner?

Posted by Stig <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Stig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 8, 2025, 7:29 am, in reply to "Owner?"

Previous Message

If somehow they have been put in some sort of trust or foundation there may be conditions attached that might exclude a sale.

From https://www.habsburg-heritage.com/#PR:

To protect and preserve the cultural and historical significance of the jewelry, the private collection is now held in a Canadian trust, with the direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita as beneficiaries. The collection will remain in Canada for the foreseeable future and will be made accessible to the public as soon as possible.

Why were the items transferred to a trust and this form of ownership chosen?

Under the law of the Province of Quebec, a Canadian trust is the current owner of the objects. The direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita are beneficiaries of this trust. The objects have been transferred to a Canadian trust and its statutes ensure that the culturally and historically significant family legacy will be kept together in their entirety and remain in Canada for the long term.

Legal owner of the items is a Canadian trust. What makes today's descendants the rightful beneficiaries of this trust?

The direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita are beneficiaries of this trust, the former owners of the objects. The objects have always been private property of the imperial family since they were placed in a family fund by Empress Maria Theresa in 1765 and remain so to this day. This was also the view of the then Procurator Fiscal in Austria in 1921, who declared all the objects that are now in the Canadian trust to be “separate private property” of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine. This was later confirmed by the then Director of the Treasury of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna to the Austrian Broadcasting Corporation (ORF) in 2001.

The objects were not and are not subject to the expropriation of the family’s assets ordered by the Habsburg Laws, as all the objects were clearly located in Switzerland at the time the Habsburg Laws came into effect. Due to the principle of territoriality, as codified in §5 of the Habsburg Laws, expropriation laws are only effective within the country’s borders and do not extend to property located outside its jurisdiction.

This was also the view of Switzerland at the time, which rejected claims made by the Austrian state to take possession of objects on Swiss territory. The corresponding report from 1921 to the Swiss Foreign Ministry can be found in the Swiss Federal Archives.

In the course of the expropriation of the family under the Habsburg Laws, the Republic of Austria had considered making a claim to the private property stored in Switzerland in the period 1920-1921. At the time, the Austrian government refrained from filing a claim because it knew it would be unsuccessful.

Re: Owner?

Posted by Johan <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Johan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 8, 2025, 8:41 am, in reply to "Re: Owner?"

So I guess part of why Zita chose to hide them for a century is getting clear. Considering Karl and Zita had eight children there are a lot of descendants, Maria Theresia would have left them to the head of the house so the main beneficiary would be Karl Habsburg. At the same time we already see the Austrian authorities trying to take a piece of the cake and with the enormous value of these pieces im sure other members of the family will want their share as well.

Still im glad a trust owns the jewels because that makes keeping them together easier than being personal property.

Previous Message

If somehow they have been put in some sort of trust or foundation there may be conditions attached that might exclude a sale.

From https://www.habsburg-heritage.com/#PR :

To protect and preserve the cultural and historical significance of the jewelry, the private collection is now held in a Canadian trust, with the direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita as beneficiaries. The collection will remain in Canada for the foreseeable future and will be made accessible to the public as soon as possible.

Why were the items transferred to a trust and this form of ownership chosen?

Under the law of the Province of Quebec, a Canadian trust is the current owner of the objects. The direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita are beneficiaries of this trust. The objects have been transferred to a Canadian trust and its statutes ensure that the culturally and historically significant family legacy will be kept together in their entirety and remain in Canada for the long term.

Legal owner of the items is a Canadian trust. What makes today's descendants the rightful beneficiaries of this trust?

The direct descendants of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita are beneficiaries of this trust, the former owners of the objects. The objects have always been private property of the imperial family since they were placed in a family fund by Empress Maria Theresa in 1765 and remain so to this day. This was also the view of the then Procurator Fiscal in Austria in 1921, who declared all the objects that are now in the Canadian trust to be “separate private property” of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine. This was later confirmed by the then Director of the Treasury of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna to the Austrian Broadcasting Corporation (ORF) in 2001.

The objects were not and are not subject to the expropriation of the family’s assets ordered by the Habsburg Laws, as all the objects were clearly located in Switzerland at the time the Habsburg Laws came into effect. Due to the principle of territoriality, as codified in §5 of the Habsburg Laws, expropriation laws are only effective within the country’s borders and do not extend to property located outside its jurisdiction.

This was also the view of Switzerland at the time, which rejected claims made by the Austrian state to take possession of objects on Swiss territory. The corresponding report from 1921 to the Swiss Foreign Ministry can be found in the Swiss Federal Archives.

In the course of the expropriation of the family under the Habsburg Laws, the Republic of Austria had considered making a claim to the private property stored in Switzerland in the period 1920-1921. At the time, the Austrian government refrained from filing a claim because it knew it would be unsuccessful.

Re: The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!

Posted by Cristina <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Cristina' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 8, 2025, 9:42 am, in reply to "The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!"

Extraordinary news! What a story! Those items are absolutely magnificent.

Recent days have been bringing us many royal jewelry developments, sadly some devastating ones also.

Re: Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada

Posted by Didier <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Didier' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 9, 2025, 11:07 am, in reply to "Habsburg Royal Jewels hidden in Canada "

Lord Twining (History of the Crown Jewels of Europe, 1960, p.14-16) gives the detail of most of these jewels;

Two golen Fliece (there were originally eight)
the hungarian jewels in three colors
bow brooch and hat clasp with yellow saphires
diamond brooch with six pearls (from the Empress pearl jewelery),
Emerald watch from empress Maria Theresa, etc ...

So mostly XVIIIe century pieces, except the pearl brooch.

Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este

Posted by JohnPete <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=JohnPete' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 10, 2025, 5:29 am, in reply to "Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este"

I’d say Archduchess Astrid is one of the few women in the extended Hapsburg family who would have occasion to wear some jewels from the trust if made available to her. But wearing an outrageous blingy diamond would surely outshine her brother and sister and law. Not that it’s hard to do, with Mathilde’s modest collection!

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Why Princess Astrid ?

Posted by Maria Olivia <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Maria+Olivia' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2025, 7:15 am, in reply to "Re: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este"

Empress Zita has a lot of grandchildren Why particulary Astrid who wore no tiara and no Sash for the Italian State Visit.

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Why Princess Astrid ?

Posted by Johan <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Johan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2025, 10:26 am, in reply to "Why Princess Astrid ?"

Possibly because she is the only one of Zita's granddaughters(-in-law) that is still a working Royal in a monarchy.
Marie-Astrid would probably be mentioned too if she had an active role in Luxembourg.

Previous Message

Empress Zita has a lot of grandchildren Why particulary Astrid who wore no tiara and no Sash for the Italian State Visit.

Previous Message

I hope that she will wear some jewels!

Previous Message

And next question.
Will it end up at auction?
I hope not.
I guess it depends on the financial situation of the familiy.

Re: Owner?

Posted by John R <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=John+R' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 13, 2025, 4:59 am, in reply to "Re: Owner?"

Keeping them in a Trust for what purpose? They are not worn nor exhibited but locked in a safe somewhere. Clearly done to avoid taxes and discussion about ownership... Sell them I say.

Previous Message

If somehow they have been put in some sort of trust or foundation there may be conditions attached that might exclude a sale.

Article Nos dutch newssite

Posted by Bart <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Bartos' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 24, 2025, 12:05 pm, in reply to "Re: The Florentine diamond resurfaces after more than 100 years!!"

Translated by google:

Italy and Austria are both investigating whether they can recover the Florentin diamond. The centuries-old art treasure was lost for over a century, but this month it was discovered in a vault in Canada. The former imperial Habsburg family considers the stone private property, while Italy and Austria consider it a treasure of national importance. Who is right?

"These are really not crown jewels, these are private property!" says Karl Habsburg on behalf of the family. He removed the Florentin diamond from the world of conspiracy and mystery by revealing a family secret and announcing that the diamond is in a vault in Canada.

The family that headed the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy kept the historic diamond's existence secret for over a century and refuses to hear of any potential claims. Habsburg claims the jewel was privately owned, taken by his grandmother, Empress Dowager Zita, when she went into exile in Canada. In an Austrian television interview with Habsburg, a journalist told him that the editors could not find a single historian who agreed with that account.

Appeal to Old Laws

With the publication of new photos, testimonies, and reports from the vault in Canada, the legal successors of the Dual Monarchy see their opportunity. Austrian Vice Chancellor Andreas Babler has commissioned lawyers to investigate how the precious gem can be returned to Vienna.

Viennese lawyer Philipp Springer believes Austria has a chance, but the family might be in a better position. "Austria will likely invoke the Habsburg Law of 1919, which stipulated that virtually all imperial property in Austria belongs to the young republic. The family believes the Florentiner diamond cannot fall under that law, because it had already left the country by then.

"But that doesn't really matter, because the diamond was in a kind of trust, and that is by definition indivisible," says Springer. "Wherever the diamond was." The family has a stronger case for the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which determined the division of the monarchy's assets after the First World War. Springer: "It clearly states that no claims can be made on the former rulers' belongings outside Austria."

"Warm yellow like a good Scotch whisky," Viennese jeweler Köchert commented on the condition of the 137-carat Florentiner:

Some eight hundred kilometers to the south, in Florence, the stone, which, incidentally, bears the city's name, has also been of interest. The Florentiner was owned by the Italian Medici, the Grand Dukes of Tuscany. When that title came into the hands of the Austrian emperor in the 18th century, he broke a will stipulating that the jewels, including the Florentiner, must remain where they were. Emperor Francis I Stephen moved the treasures to Vienna.

From the Medici Residence

After the First World War, the Florentiner "disappeared," but during that period, Austria did return other Tuscan jewels to Italy. "And there may be a precedent there," says Cristina Acidini, a Florentine art historian.

"It's clear that the jewel belonged to the Tuscan state and that the Habsburgs expropriated it," she continues. Acidini can already imagine the Florentine jewel returning to the other jewels in the former Medici residence. "It's a jewel that emphasized the family's strength and good taste. It would become a new attraction of great cultural significance."

"Italy may well have the best credentials," agrees Viennese lawyer Springer. "The Treaty of Saint-Germain mentions the Medici's private jewels and calls for an investigation into whether they should be returned to Tuscany."

Quiet Diplomacy

Art historian Acidini believes the matter should be discussed at the highest levels. "Presidents, heads of government, and ministers of culture must speak directly with each other." A return would be the ideal outcome, although she would also celebrate a temporary exhibition featuring the Florentine artist as a success.

The Florence city council is already urging action in Rome, but the Italian and Austrian authorities are only vague. The first steps are being taken behind the scenes, according to the rules of quiet diplomacy. Only in court will the validity of the agreements made over a century ago become clear.

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