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Film Composers
Posted by Jeffrey Lague on April 14, 2023, 12:55 pm
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Marc Bridle on April 14, 2023, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Film Composers"
Rosza's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes is based on his magnificent Violin Concerto. It's such an extensive use of the work it's quite unusual as film scores go. Another fascinating score is Hermann's Hangover Square - the extended piano concerto he wrote for the end of the film, Concerto Macabre, has been played as a stand-alone piece. I think it's a bit like Liszt's Totentanz, probably a major influence on it. Rosza's surreal score for Hitchcock's Spellbound is another great work - although the director disliked it, probably because it wasn't Hermann who had been his first choice.
One of the most interesting film scores I ever came across was by Previn. The major instrument he uses is a harpsichord - and it's such a chilling effect; ghostly, like tapping sticks against the bones of a corpse. It was used in one of Bette Davis's film noir movies from the early 60's so seemed oddly appropriate I guess. One of his best scores, but hardly known really.
Atonalism is one of the things that has never really defined film music, either. Perhaps the most famous example is David Shire's The Taking of Pelham 123; but then Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes fits the bill as an atonal score.
And talking of atonalism, film students used to have fun trying to find anything possibly atonal that John Williams wrote. You'll come across it for two bars and you miss it. Go to The Empire Strikes Back and listen for it!
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I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Jeffrey Lague on April 14, 2023, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
Mention of Previn reminds me of a tale he told of how he had orchestrated and expanded a score that Herbert Stothart had composed for a film. When it came to the recording of the score in the studio, Stothart , who was conducting the orchestra put down his baton in astonishment, turned around and said "Did I write that??"
I looked up Stothart on the web and found that , in his latter years, he had suffered a heart attack and memorialised the experience in a symphonic poem entitled "Heart Attack." Possibly could share a programme with Karlowicz's "Sorrowful Tale" - about a man committing suicide (the original score had included a pistol-shot at the climactic moment) and Leo Ornstein's "Suicide in an Airplane" to make a thoroughly depressing evening's entertainment.
Of course, like Rosza, Korngold plundered his own film scores (principally Another Dawn and The Prince and the Pauper) when he came to write his violin concerto; both concertos were championed by Heifetz.
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Rosza's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes is based on his magnificent Violin Concerto. It's such an extensive use of the work it's quite unusual as film scores go. Another fascinating score is Hermann's Hangover Square - the extended piano concerto he wrote for the end of the film, Concerto Macabre, has been played as a stand-alone piece. I think it's a bit like Liszt's Totentanz, probably a major influence on it. Rosza's surreal score for Hitchcock's Spellbound is another great work - although the director disliked it, probably because it wasn't Hermann who had been his first choice.
One of the most interesting film scores I ever came across was by Previn. The major instrument he uses is a harpsichord - and it's such a chilling effect; ghostly, like tapping sticks against the bones of a corpse. It was used in one of Bette Davis's film noir movies from the early 60's so seemed oddly appropriate I guess. One of his best scores, but hardly known really.
Atonalism is one of the things that has never really defined film music, either. Perhaps the most famous example is David Shire's The Taking of Pelham 123; but then Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes fits the bill as an atonal score.
And talking of atonalism, film students used to have fun trying to find anything possibly atonal that John Williams wrote. You'll come across it for two bars and you miss it. Go to The Empire Strikes Back and listen for it!
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Len Mullenger on April 17, 2023, 9:50 am, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
I am sure Jeffrey, that you will know this book but can I recommend to others Andre Previn's No Minor Chords My Days in Hollywood There is a review here http://www.musicweb-international.com/previn.htm
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Jeffrey Lague on April 17, 2023, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
Actually, Len, I don't know the book but, after reading the review, it's going to go on my list as something to get.
The only time I saw Previn "live" I regret to say was at a rehearsal in the RFH sometime in the late 1960s; as a music student back then I was allowed to attend. He was rehearsing the Schumann Concerto and the Strauss Burleske with the soloist in the concert, Claudio Arrau. The rehearsal consisted of a straight run-through with the cadenzas of both works omitted. A little bit disappointing as I was expecting some interesting discussion over points of interpretation.
A few years back I booked to see Previn conduct a concert at the Barbican but he cancelled, probably due to failing health.
One artist I did see was Jose Iturbi - mentioned in the review as a musician who enjoyed his association with the movies - when he played the Liszt First Concerto and the Grieg at the Royal Albert Hall . In his heyday Iturbi had been immensely popular , playing to sold-out houses but , on this occasion, the RAH was about two-thirds empty. Iturbi didn't look very pleased !
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I am sure Jeffrey, that you will know this book but can I recommend to others Andre Previn's No Minor Chords My Days in Hollywood There is a review here http://www.musicweb-international.com/previn.htm
Re: Film Composers
Posted by dieter barkhoff on April 18, 2023, 11:44 am, in reply to "Film Composers"
In Australia, the ABC has a program dedicated to Film Music. I hate Film Music. There is not one note of film music that will equal the most basic notes Mozart, Beethoven, or Rachmaninov wrote. It's formula music, usually as background to the formula we call 'Film'. Today my wife and I watched a Polish film called Eo Ow, a film about a donkey. It was full of dramatic background music which was as loud as any disco one hath ever attended. There were 60 seconds of Beethven's 4th Piano Concerto, the rest was written by Heironymous Mush...
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Nick Barnard on April 18, 2023, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
Dieter - what about Brief Encounter..........??
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In Australia, the ABC has a program dedicated to Film Music. I hate Film Music. There is not one note of film music that will equal the most basic notes Mozart, Beethoven, or Rachmaninov wrote. It's formula music, usually as background to the formula we call 'Film'. Today my wife and I watched a Polish film called Eo Ow, a film about a donkey. It was full of dramatic background music which was as loud as any disco one hath ever attended. There were 60 seconds of Beethven's 4th Piano Concerto, the rest was written by Heironymous Mush...
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Jeffrey Lague on April 19, 2023, 12:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
dieter...I wouldn't expect a Polish film about a donkey to be supported by a score on the level of Beethoven or Mozart. Perhaps you'd be more impressed with the scores of "Scott of the Antarctic" written by Vaughan Williams and using material that appears in the Sinfonia Antarctica, or the scores that Walton wrote for Olivier's Shakespeare adaptations for the screen, or -for that matter - the Spitfire Prelude and Fugue which also had its origin in a film score.
There are occasions when the score of a film is definitely of far superior quality to the thing it was written for and helps to make it watchable. I viewed , on YouTube, a British film called "The Hangman Waits" (1947) which , apart from the amusing presence of two garrulous, old cockney women - Ah yes, I remember them well - is mainly of interest for the score which was written by the pianist Albert Ferber. Although the sound quality is dire, Ferber's score - which is unlike the repertoire of the Viennese classics and the late nineteenth/early twentieth century French school with which he was associated - suggests that his compositional talents might well have equalled his pianistic talents.
Mention of Mozart reminds me that he wrote the music to accompany the melodrama Zaide, prompting me to think that, had he lived to be 150, he might have been quite happy to accept a commission to write a film score himself.
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In Australia, the ABC has a program dedicated to Film Music. I hate Film Music. There is not one note of film music that will equal the most basic notes Mozart, Beethoven, or Rachmaninov wrote. It's formula music, usually as background to the formula we call 'Film'. Today my wife and I watched a Polish film called Eo Ow, a film about a donkey. It was full of dramatic background music which was as loud as any disco one hath ever attended. There were 60 seconds of Beethven's 4th Piano Concerto, the rest was written by Heironymous Mush...
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Marc Bridle on May 3, 2023, 11:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
Someone once said that if Mozart were alive today he would be writing film scores.
Amadeus might not count, however.
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In Australia, the ABC has a program dedicated to Film Music. I hate Film Music. There is not one note of film music that will equal the most basic notes Mozart, Beethoven, or Rachmaninov wrote. It's formula music, usually as background to the formula we call 'Film'. Today my wife and I watched a Polish film called Eo Ow, a film about a donkey. It was full of dramatic background music which was as loud as any disco one hath ever attended. There were 60 seconds of Beethven's 4th Piano Concerto, the rest was written by Heironymous Mush...
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Mikeh on April 20, 2023, 8:25 am, in reply to "Film Composers"
Dieter . your dislike of film scores is probably because none sound like Bruckner?
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I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Des Hutchinson on April 20, 2023, 3:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
Well, actually, if you listen to the score of the 2003 movie Hulk, you'll probably swear its key motif was lifted directly from the 1st movt of Bruckner's 3rd.
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Dieter . your dislike of film scores is probably because none sound like Bruckner?
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Jeffrey Lague on April 21, 2023, 6:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
It wouldn't surprise me if James Bernard got his Dracula motif (DRAAA..cula) from one (or several) of the Bruckner symphonies , I can't remember which...they all sound very similar to me (which is not to say I dislike them, I hasten to add).
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Well, actually, if you listen to the score of the 2003 movie Hulk , you'll probably swear its key motif was lifted directly from the 1st movt of Bruckner's 3rd.
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Dieter . your dislike of film scores is probably because none sound like Bruckner?
Previous Message
I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.
Re: Film Composers
Posted by Ralph Moore on April 21, 2023, 8:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Film Composers"
- and the "Lighting of the Beacons" in The Return of the King(Lord of the Rings) owes more than a little to Bruckner:
Longer version:
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Dieter . your dislike of film scores is probably because none sound like Bruckner?
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I was watching the 1952 film noir "Angel Face" the other day and was aware of what seemed to me a rather effectively-written chunk of a romantic piano concerto serving as the background score in places. I began to wonder if the composer, Dmitri Tiomkin, had written a concerto and - rather than let it languish in obscurity - had used it in this score so I looked-up the Wiki article on him. No mention of a concerto but certainly of a very distinguished musical background including lessons in composition from Glazunov. Apparently he gave the European premiere of Gershwin's Concerto in F. This set me on the track of some other composers of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Although the musical credentials of such as Korngold and Rosza are well-known I was unaware that Max Steiner had Richard Strauss as his godfather and that, among his mentors were Robert Fuchs, Felix Weingartner and Gustav Mahler. Others , such as Alfred Newman and Victor Young couldn't boast such a line-up but their academic training seems to have been thorough and impressive. As an aside and, with reference to part of the discussion on "The Man I Love" it seems that Hoagy Carmichael had originally written "Stardust" as an up-tempo instrumental number and that Young had made a slowed-down version to which were added the words that became known to everybody ever since.
Another thing that became obvious was just how many of these composers were Jewish, often of an Eastern European or Russian background if not themselves at least from the previous generation or two. It's significant just how much composers of such an origin influenced popular Western culture of the twentieth century.
Of course we, in the UK, have produced some marvellous composers who worked in the film industry too...Malcolm Arnold, Benjamin Frankel, Anthony Hopkins and William Alwyn come very much to my mind. But it is to the glamour of Hollywood that the film composers made their most lasting contribution to the psyche of the general public in the middle years of the last century. They certainly must have had quite an influence on forming my musical tastes in the 1950s as, with no TV in the house, the family spent three or four evenings a week watching (and listening to) such fare in some of the local cinemas which existed in abundance back then.