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Sleeve notes
Posted by Mike Hardy on July 20, 2024, 10:44 am
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by John Quinn on July 20, 2024, 3:42 pm, in reply to "Sleeve notes"
Mike, like you I fall into the bracket of being "of a certain age" and my eyesight is not what it once was.
I completely agree with your comments. I firmly believe that the documentation is a key element in any release, considered as a package, and that's why I invariably comment on the quality of the booklet in my own reviews, including comment as to the legibility - or otherwise - of what is provided.
You're right to say that quality varies. I agree about Naxos and Chandos. My experience is that very often it's the smaller independent labels that set the standard - SOMM and Albion are among the best. The so-called 'majors' are usually sub-standard.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Nick Barnard on July 21, 2024, 8:07 am, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
In complete agreement with these posts. I think though that this reflects our collective ages (and not just as it relates to eyesight!). If you grew up in the glory years of LP - regardless of whether you were listening to Classical or Rock - the LP cover/book/gatefold was an integral part of the listening experience. Part of the "status" of a disc/set for me was the scale and quality of the liner. Even early CD iterations of say classic operas came with a pleasingly chunky book in a substantial cardboard box.
But now, with the move towards predominantly digital media and streaming by definition the written word associated with that recording is marginalised. Where I have bought downloads I must admit I rarely read the accompanying digital booklets because I don't want to sit in front of a computer screen while listening to the music. So I imagine that for some companies creating an intelligent booklet is almost perceived as a waste of time preferring instead a gushing artist biog and some moody pics - DG with their A list artists are particularly prone to this. Perhaps labels such as SOMM who are more repertoire than artist facing still believe in the importance of a well-written liner....?
Previous Message
Mike, like you I fall into the bracket of being "of a certain age" and my eyesight is not what it once was.
I completely agree with your comments. I firmly believe that the documentation is a key element in any release, considered as a package, and that's why I invariably comment on the quality of the booklet in my own reviews, including comment as to the legibility - or otherwise - of what is provided.
You're right to say that quality varies. I agree about Naxos and Chandos. My experience is that very often it's the smaller independent labels that set the standard - SOMM and Albion are among the best. The so-called 'majors' are usually sub-standard.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Paul Serotsky on July 22, 2024, 6:04 am, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
An interesting topic - and quite rightly so; notes are as essential to a classical release as they are non-essential to a "pop" release. Where a company releases music in physical formats, there simply is no excuse for not providing notes. As Nick says, the nub of the problem is the rise of digital media, wherein a booklet note must necessarily also be a digital product. In music streaming, the provision of a physical booklet is just not feasible, although I can see no valid reason why, even here, a digital note should not at least be available.
Like Nick, I don't relish sitting at my PC to peruse the booklet. Yet, there are alternatives. Most obviously, you could print out your digital booklet. This would be OK, except that digital booklets are rarely if ever in a suitable format. To me, a far more promising option is for digital booklets to be formatted for printing onto A4 paper. Better still, why not provide notes formatted (like web pages) for reading on a smart-phone or tablet - or even as EPUB files that you can simply pop onto an e-book reader, or a tablet running an e-reader application?
Previous Message
In complete agreement with these posts. I think though that this reflects our collective ages (and not just as it relates to eyesight!). If you grew up in the glory years of LP - regardless of whether you were listening to Classical or Rock - the LP cover/book/gatefold was an integral part of the listening experience. Part of the "status" of a disc/set for me was the scale and quality of the liner. Even early CD iterations of say classic operas came with a pleasingly chunky book in a substantial cardboard box.
But now, with the move towards predominantly digital media and streaming by definition the written word associated with that recording is marginalised. Where I have bought downloads I must admit I rarely read the accompanying digital booklets because I don't want to sit in front of a computer screen while listening to the music. So I imagine that for some companies creating an intelligent booklet is almost perceived as a waste of time preferring instead a gushing artist biog and some moody pics - DG with their A list artists are particularly prone to this. Perhaps labels such as SOMM who are more repertoire than artist facing still believe in the importance of a well-written liner....?
Previous Message
Mike, like you I fall into the bracket of being "of a certain age" and my eyesight is not what it once was.
I completely agree with your comments. I firmly believe that the documentation is a key element in any release, considered as a package, and that's why I invariably comment on the quality of the booklet in my own reviews, including comment as to the legibility - or otherwise - of what is provided.
You're right to say that quality varies. I agree about Naxos and Chandos. My experience is that very often it's the smaller independent labels that set the standard - SOMM and Albion are among the best. The so-called 'majors' are usually sub-standard.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Tony Haywood on July 21, 2024, 9:27 am, in reply to "Sleeve notes"
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Surely the industry leaders here for a mixture of scholarly content and sheer readability are Hyperion ? They commission notes from top writers and never short-change on length. It never surprised me that Graham Johnson's Schubert notes were gathered together and published separately - they are a class act and Hyperion is to be commended for making all their catalogue available free online
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Robert on July 21, 2024, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Sleeve notes"
Whilst in agreement with the general tenor of the points being made here. I would just like to stress the very important point that poor eyesight is not only something that affects or indeed afflicts those of 'a certain age'. As someone who was born 80% blind and for whom reading anything without a powerful magnifying glass has been an impossibility since my first day at school (actually even before then), I am just one of the not insignificant number of visually impaired or completely blind classical music lovers who clearly are not given a moment's thought when it comes to designing many CD booklets.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Len Mullenger on July 21, 2024, 2:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
Decca recently re-issued the Solti Ring. Each opera was on an SACD but was mounted in an LP sized box with full sized booklet. Maybe that is the way forward as the booklet would be large enough to be easily read. Len
Previous Message
Whilst in agreement with the general tenor of the points being made here. I would just like to stress the very important point that poor eyesight is not only something that affects or indeed afflicts those of 'a certain age'. As someone who was born 80% blind and for whom reading anything without a powerful magnifying glass has been an impossibility since my first day at school (actually even before then), I am just one of the not insignificant number of visually impaired or completely blind classical music lovers who clearly are not given a moment's thought when it comes to designing many CD booklets.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Ralph Moore on July 23, 2024, 8:23 am, in reply to "Sleeve notes"
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Len Mullenger on July 23, 2024, 8:56 am, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
Ralph is speaking as someone who has a detailed knowledge of the music he normally listens to. But most people are not like that and do not have that knowledge and welcome the guidance of the sleeve notes. As an example of what can be done I was listening to a Naxos recording of Arnaldo Cohen playing Liszt 8.553852. The booklet provided with this is 24 sides with notes in English, German and French with 9 pages of description and analysis in each language! Len Mullenger
Previous Message
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Mike Hardy on July 23, 2024, 8:59 am, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
Well said Ralph! From a different viewpoint, I am concerned that people coming to classical music for the first time are: a) Put off by sycophantic blurb about the artistes b) Left in the dark about the music and given no pointers c) confused by quasi-musicological clap-trap.(Mahler/Tchaikovsky from Currentzis a prime example). Companies need to consider their potential audience. The record shop enthusiast is no longer there to help(with honourable exceptions).
Finally my sincere apologies to Robert, my comments were thoughtless.
Previous Message
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Robert on July 23, 2024, 12:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
First of all I would like to say to Mike that there is no apology necessary as no offence was taken. I just wanted to raise a general and important point on the issue of eyesight and the lack of.
Secondly, Ralph knows his own mind but I can't for the life of me understand why on earth anyone would not appreciate indeed demand a musicological analysis of what is after all nothing but a piece of music. Especially when listening to a piece you have never heard before which is almost always the case with contemporary music. Sadly what we far too often get is some adjective-ridden waffle flailing around in words pertaining exclusively to human emotions or nature description. This kind of tiresomely bad teenage poetry says everything about the lack of musical training of the person penning this gibberish and next to nothing about the music in question. Music is music, not biography or soundtrack or emotion. Furthermore unlike MWI reviewers those who pen liner notes are paid to do so. I am not sure why Ralph chose to put musicological in brackets but whether it interests us or not musicology is a noble discipline of academic study the fruits of which all music lovers should be very grateful for and would be much the poorer without.
In all these issues I think too many people focus on themselves without looking at the broader picture which is what matters most when record (or any) companies are making their decisions.
Previous Message
Well said Ralph! From a different viewpoint, I am concerned that people coming to classical music for the first time are: a) Put off by sycophantic blurb about the artistes b) Left in the dark about the music and given no pointers c) confused by quasi-musicological clap-trap.(Mahler/Tchaikovsky from Currentzis a prime example). Companies need to consider their potential audience. The record shop enthusiast is no longer there to help(with honourable exceptions).
Finally my sincere apologies to Robert, my comments were thoughtless.
Previous Message
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Ralph Moore on July 23, 2024, 5:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
Robert, I guess that my indifference to sleeve notes stems from the fact that as a fairly conservative listener I rarely listen to new or contemporary music. I by no means despise musicology but the ethos of MusicWeb is to cater for the average punter who wants some pointers about what to look for in recordings, rather than in the music per se - although of course that can be helpful. Please feel free to admonish me if my own reviews or surveys are not sufficiently helpful in that regard; my sole aim is to enhance a listener's enjoyment of the music in question by selecting the best recording.
Previous Message
First of all I would like to say to Mike that there is no apology necessary as no offence was taken. I just wanted to raise a general and important point on the issue of eyesight and the lack of.
Secondly, Ralph knows his own mind but I can't for the life of me understand why on earth anyone would not appreciate indeed demand a musicological analysis of what is after all nothing but a piece of music. Especially when listening to a piece you have never heard before which is almost always the case with contemporary music. Sadly what we far too often get is some adjective-ridden waffle flailing around in words pertaining exclusively to human emotions or nature description. This kind of tiresomely bad teenage poetry says everything about the lack of musical training of the person penning this gibberish and next to nothing about the music in question. Music is music, not biography or soundtrack or emotion. Furthermore unlike MWI reviewers those who pen liner notes are paid to do so. I am not sure why Ralph chose to put musicological in brackets but whether it interests us or not musicology is a noble discipline of academic study the fruits of which all music lovers should be very grateful for and would be much the poorer without.
In all these issues I think too many people focus on themselves without looking at the broader picture which is what matters most when record (or any) companies are making their decisions.
Previous Message
Well said Ralph! From a different viewpoint, I am concerned that people coming to classical music for the first time are: a) Put off by sycophantic blurb about the artistes b) Left in the dark about the music and given no pointers c) confused by quasi-musicological clap-trap.(Mahler/Tchaikovsky from Currentzis a prime example). Companies need to consider their potential audience. The record shop enthusiast is no longer there to help(with honourable exceptions).
Finally my sincere apologies to Robert, my comments were thoughtless.
Previous Message
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Robert on July 23, 2024, 5:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
Ralph, the theme of these posts is sleeve notes: how they are presented and how they are written. How or what you or any MWI reviewer writes is not at issue. My points and those of others who have contributed to this post are in relation solely to published and purchased sleeve notes. So admonishment or not of any reviewer is not even relevant. However as you raised the point I will just say that I have absolutely no idea who the average punter might be when it comes to classical music recordings and when only one recording exists of hundreds, possibly thousands of pieces of music I greatly appreciate any reviewer who selects the best music.
Previous Message
Robert, I guess that my indifference to sleeve notes stems from the fact that as a fairly conservative listener I rarely listen to new or contemporary music. I by no means despise musicology but the ethos of MusicWeb is to cater for the average punter who wants some pointers about what to look for in recordings, rather than in the music per se - although of course that can be helpful. Please feel free to admonish me if my own reviews or surveys are not sufficiently helpful in that regard; my sole aim is to enhance a listener's enjoyment of the music in question by selecting the best recording.
Previous Message
First of all I would like to say to Mike that there is no apology necessary as no offence was taken. I just wanted to raise a general and important point on the issue of eyesight and the lack of.
Secondly, Ralph knows his own mind but I can't for the life of me understand why on earth anyone would not appreciate indeed demand a musicological analysis of what is after all nothing but a piece of music. Especially when listening to a piece you have never heard before which is almost always the case with contemporary music. Sadly what we far too often get is some adjective-ridden waffle flailing around in words pertaining exclusively to human emotions or nature description. This kind of tiresomely bad teenage poetry says everything about the lack of musical training of the person penning this gibberish and next to nothing about the music in question. Music is music, not biography or soundtrack or emotion. Furthermore unlike MWI reviewers those who pen liner notes are paid to do so. I am not sure why Ralph chose to put musicological in brackets but whether it interests us or not musicology is a noble discipline of academic study the fruits of which all music lovers should be very grateful for and would be much the poorer without.
In all these issues I think too many people focus on themselves without looking at the broader picture which is what matters most when record (or any) companies are making their decisions.
Previous Message
Well said Ralph! From a different viewpoint, I am concerned that people coming to classical music for the first time are: a) Put off by sycophantic blurb about the artistes b) Left in the dark about the music and given no pointers c) confused by quasi-musicological clap-trap.(Mahler/Tchaikovsky from Currentzis a prime example). Companies need to consider their potential audience. The record shop enthusiast is no longer there to help(with honourable exceptions).
Finally my sincere apologies to Robert, my comments were thoughtless.
Previous Message
Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
Previous Message
Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by Nick Barnard on July 24, 2024, 8:30 am, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
I am very much in the pro-liner notes camp albeit with several caveats. If the music is previously unknown to me (regardless of whether it is a contemporary score or hundreds of years old) I never read the associated note before a first listen. For me this is to avoid an even subconcious absorption of information about composer/context/work. But after that first listen I am interested to then see what the note writer says. A review of mine on the site just today of Lukas Foss is a perfect example of this.
I am also happy to reference the liner/quote from it (again as I did here) when the writer there makes a valid succinct point that I feel throws light on the music.
Lastly, I do enjoy a technical analysis but again the manner and degree is important. So if the liner writer illuminates for the reader the fact that there is - say - thematic continuity or a recurring use of motifs or keys - in a way that can guide the listener that is very helpful. But if they indulge in academic screeds about using the sub mediant added ninth chord as the harmonic lynch pin of the recapitulation I rather glaze over.....
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Ralph, the theme of these posts is sleeve notes: how they are presented and how they are written. How or what you or any MWI reviewer writes is not at issue. My points and those of others who have contributed to this post are in relation solely to published and purchased sleeve notes. So admonishment or not of any reviewer is not even relevant. However as you raised the point I will just say that I have absolutely no idea who the average punter might be when it comes to classical music recordings and when only one recording exists of hundreds, possibly thousands of pieces of music I greatly appreciate any reviewer who selects the best music.
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Robert, I guess that my indifference to sleeve notes stems from the fact that as a fairly conservative listener I rarely listen to new or contemporary music. I by no means despise musicology but the ethos of MusicWeb is to cater for the average punter who wants some pointers about what to look for in recordings, rather than in the music per se - although of course that can be helpful. Please feel free to admonish me if my own reviews or surveys are not sufficiently helpful in that regard; my sole aim is to enhance a listener's enjoyment of the music in question by selecting the best recording.
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First of all I would like to say to Mike that there is no apology necessary as no offence was taken. I just wanted to raise a general and important point on the issue of eyesight and the lack of.
Secondly, Ralph knows his own mind but I can't for the life of me understand why on earth anyone would not appreciate indeed demand a musicological analysis of what is after all nothing but a piece of music. Especially when listening to a piece you have never heard before which is almost always the case with contemporary music. Sadly what we far too often get is some adjective-ridden waffle flailing around in words pertaining exclusively to human emotions or nature description. This kind of tiresomely bad teenage poetry says everything about the lack of musical training of the person penning this gibberish and next to nothing about the music in question. Music is music, not biography or soundtrack or emotion. Furthermore unlike MWI reviewers those who pen liner notes are paid to do so. I am not sure why Ralph chose to put musicological in brackets but whether it interests us or not musicology is a noble discipline of academic study the fruits of which all music lovers should be very grateful for and would be much the poorer without.
In all these issues I think too many people focus on themselves without looking at the broader picture which is what matters most when record (or any) companies are making their decisions.
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Well said Ralph! From a different viewpoint, I am concerned that people coming to classical music for the first time are: a) Put off by sycophantic blurb about the artistes b) Left in the dark about the music and given no pointers c) confused by quasi-musicological clap-trap.(Mahler/Tchaikovsky from Currentzis a prime example). Companies need to consider their potential audience. The record shop enthusiast is no longer there to help(with honourable exceptions).
Finally my sincere apologies to Robert, my comments were thoughtless.
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Although I concede that they can sometimes be helpful and well written, I confess to being wary of reading sleeve notes and sometimes ignore them altogether, so am heretically not that bothered by their absence or lack of quality. This is because mean-minded people - not MusicWeb readers, obviously! - are quick to accuse amateur reviewers of paraphrasing them -an accusation I am keen to avoid. What I do want from the notes, for example, is information such as which version is being used in a recording of a Bruckner symphony and the what are the differences from other editions that I must look out for. I don't want a "musicological" analysis nor a hagiography of the artists. Some context for the music and the history of its performance and reception is always interesting. I do agree that graphic designers are increasingly careless of legibility; there is a trend for light text on a light background in a miniscule font instead of black on white in a sensible point size. I am certainly not prepared to read the notes online and welcome the demise of the short-lived trend of providing libretti on a CD-Rom disc - which nobody ever accessed. Nor do I want to have to find shelf room for LP-sized packaging - sorry, Len.
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Sleeve notes ~ are they still called that? Any rate, notes accompanying CDs. I suspect that I am not alone in being of a certain age and with eyesight fading. CD notes are often almost unreadable with pale print on a coloured background (stand up Warner)or in print so small that a magnifying glass is needed . As an example Chandos notes, invariably excellent, are in very small , grey print on a white background. I usually have to photo so I can read them. Content is variable, Naxos and Chandos stand out from the crowd but some are more interested in the artist than the music , there should be room for both. Example: DG notes for the Ives symphonies with Dudamel are ridiculously useless, heaven knows what guidance they give to any newcomer to the music, A mention for Bru Zane, an example to everybody, superb, comprehensive, informative notes in readable print (even if a little small). Their excellent presentation makes the case for CDs over downloads. I know I can search the internet for information but good notes ought be part of the CD package. Apologies for the rant but with some CDs I feel I am being short~changed.
Re: Sleeve notes
Posted by tuxedo on July 24, 2024, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Sleeve notes"
I didn't expect this thread to grow as much as it has - thinking most (like myself) would simply agree with the OP's opinions. However, it impelled me to do some brief local research, and I should like to put a word in for Harmonia Mundi (DHM as well) - even a CD from their budget series has three language notes on the composer and the recorded work. Informative useful details from many others remain conspicuous by their absence.
I think Robert's phrases - "tiresomely bad teenage poetry" and "too many people focus on themselves" are accurate and pertinent, highlighting as they do the target 'yoof' audience these companies appear to be aiming for.
And as if to emphasise this point, today's selection of discs has a "Mezzo Mozart" CD, surprising no-one at all with an irrelevant display of grafitti, although I was left wondering if a frontal view would confirm how far the grafitti extends. Mere curiosity you understand. However, this was soon dispelled by the (out of context) quote from Gramophone... "easy at the top but sometimes lacking fullness lower down".
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