Royal Jewels of the World Message Board

[ Royal Jewels of the World Message Board ]

Vladimir Tiara on TikTok

Posted by 992234177 <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=992234177' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 16, 2025, 3:41 pm

I just saw this on TikTok, does anyone know anything about it. It directly contradicts the Royal Collection website but seems odd to post about it if it’s false.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdFgRRSm/

Re: Vladimir Tiara on TikTok

Posted by Cynthia <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=cynthia' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 17, 2025, 10:37 am, in reply to "Vladimir Tiara on TikTok"

I won't watch anything on TikTok, but if it contradicts the Royal Collection website, surely it's indeed false. I've seen so many erroneous posts on social sites whose owners refuse to admit they're wrong. "No, that's not Lady Mountbatten." "But this other website says it is!" "They're wrong. It's (insert other woman's name here)." "But the other website says it's Lady Mountbatten!"

What is the Royal Collection's take? Can you post a link?

Re: Vladimir Tiara on TikTok

Posted by 992234177 <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=992234177' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 17, 2025, 10:51 am, in reply to "Re: Vladimir Tiara on TikTok"

RC info is not categoric. It says attributed to Bolin which must mean no paperwork, and presumably no stamps and it says c1874 probably because that’s the year of her marriage. If the RC was more definite I would ignore it but the TikTok makes definite claims though I can’t see the source. It does state that there has been a recent discovery and I hoped somebody might have heard something about it, or it might be BS.

https://www.rct.uk/collection/exhibitions/russia-royalty-the-romanovs/the-queens-gallery-buckingham-palace/vladimir-tiara

Re: Vladimir Tiara on TikTok

Unless the tik-er is from Prince Dmitri of Yugoslavia (descended from GD Vladimir) I'd go with the Royal Collection or Munn (who I think advised the RC).

From The Queen's Diamonds published 2012 by Royal Collection Publications

Posted by Nellie <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Nellie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 17, 2025, 8:00 pm, in reply to "Vladimir Tiara on TikTok"

My source is -

Roberts, Hugh 2012 The Queen's Diamonds, London: Royal Collection Publications

"Attributed to Bolin, St Petersburg, c1874"

"...was made for the Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna (1854-1920)...by the Russian court jeweller Bolin apparently at the time of her marriage in 1874."

"..was ingeniously smuggled out of Russia by her friend and confidant, Albert Henry (Bertie) Stopford..."

"...sold by the Grand Duchess's daughter, Princess Nicholas of Greece (1882-1957), to Queen Mary."

"The frame... was completely remade by Garrard in 1988."

My comments -

First, I am not aware of any more recent information.

Unfortunately, most material published by recognised authors or official sources has been proved to contain errors. This applies to The Queen's Diamonds and the many other books about royal jewellery. The website of the Royal Collection Trust has also included incorrect detail quite often which is very disappointing.
Broadly, I do not rely on blogs, websites, and social media featuring royal jewels, but especially when they do not cite their sources.

The Queen's Diamonds was a huge undertaking for the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II and Hugh Roberts is to be roundly commended for this work.

He must have had to rely on loads of information already compiled by many workers at the Royal Collection and I believe that is where some faulty work (I avoid saying research here) managed to be included.

As regards the website, I have often been appalled at some blunders.
However, I think today's priority is primarily to entertain and not to provide authentic information.

I do not believe we can ever again expect to see a thorough research project starting with the outstanding primary sources available to the Royal Collection.
The cost would be prohibitive.

For holiday reading.....

From wider searching, this Daily Mail article tells the story of the escape of the jewels of Grand Duchess Vladimir.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12495993/Queen-Elizabeth-Vladimir-Tiara-History.html

Re: For holiday reading.....

Posted by JohnAF <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=JohnAF' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2025, 5:03 am, in reply to "For holiday reading....."

"Hidden Treasures of the Romanovs, saving the royal jewels" by William Clarke gives great information on Bertie Stopford's relationshop with the Grand Duchess Vladimir and the rescue of her jewels.

Re: For holiday reading.....

Posted by Nellie <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Nellie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2025, 5:08 am, in reply to "Re: For holiday reading....."

Previous Message

"Hidden Treasures of the Romanovs, saving the royal jewels" by William Clarke gives great information on Bertie Stopford's relationshop with the Grand Duchess Vladimir and the rescue of her jewels.

Thank you JohnAF. I think I had that book but it went when I did some ruthless downsizing many years back

What was the contradiction?

All I noted was that the article gave a more detailed version of the origins of the tiara, but still made by Bolin.
And it mentioned new information but I found no clue to any source for that statement.

Re: What was the contradiction?

Posted by 992234177 <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=992234177' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "What was the contradiction?"

The TikTok stated that the tiara was made in 1843 to be given to the Grand Duke Alexander, future Tsar Alexander II. In 1880 it was passed to the Grand Duke Vladimir.

Re: Vladimir Tiara

Posted by Cynthia <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=cynthia' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2025, 6:03 pm, in reply to "Vladimir Tiara on TikTok"

I dug out my Leslie Field book "The Queen's Jewels." She says:

"Around 1890, the Grand Duchess commissioned a Russian jeweller to make her a diamond tiara of fifteen interlaced circles, with a swinging oriental pearl suspended in each... she left the tiara in Cartier's Paris workroom for cleaning, and while this was being done they took the opportunity of making at least three copies..."

What do we think? Is Ms Field a good source? This book was published in 1987, so (obviously) before all the misinformation that has cropped up in the last 25 years online.

Re: Vladimir Tiara

Field has been the main author, until Roberts. Even the Royal Collection has used Field for their source for at least one small commemorative publication - and thereby published wrong information that Field had taken direct from Menkes.

I recall way way back when their website had a Q&A section. We RJWMBers were avid followers of that - until we all realised and agreed that the web staffers were relying on the same reference books we all had. The staff were not accessing far better sources held in royal repositories.
Here I must assert that access to various royal repositories is complex, rare and often even barred. But that is another topic altogether.

I looked up The Royal Jewels by Suzy Menkes, 1985. She confirms Cartier making three copies of the Vladimir with pendant pearls, in 1911.
Menkes does say this tiara was made for Grand Duchess Vladimir but I cannot find a date or maker's name.

Date of Origin of Vladimir tiara - ed #2

It seems the only area of dispute is the date of origin and consequently who commissioned this tiara.
The maker Bolin is not in dispute.
I will edit here as I find all dates and give the original or most recent sources as far as I can detect.

1843 TikTok ; Collectissim website

c1874 Roberts; and Royal Collection website
1874 Papi

c1890 Field; Bury

Sources
Shirley Bury, Jewellery Vol II, 1997 Antique Collectors' Club
Hugh Roberts, The Queen's Diamonds, 2012 Royal Collection Enterprises
Leslie Field, The Queen's Jewels, 1997 (latest edition) Harry N Abrams
Stefano Papi, The Jewels of the Romanovs Family and Court, 2010 Thames & Hudson - acknowledements include Prince Dimitri of Yugoslavia

Collectissim seems to be the source for the TikTok article - link, then scroll down, but no source given for their assertion
https://www.collectissim.com/en/bolin-jeweler-story/

1843 - edited

Posted by Nellie <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Nellie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2025, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Vladimir Tiara on TikTok"

Ursula - our esteemed RJWMBer - had the story all the time!!
Perhaps she will confirm all this for us. I will just provide a link and an online translation

Edited because I could not get the German link to return.
Below is the link to Ursula's site in English

Re: n/t

Posted by Nellie <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Nellie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2025, 7:57 pm, in reply to "1843"

Re: 1843, corrected to 1842, link in English

Posted by Nellie <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=Nellie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2025, 8:05 pm, in reply to "1843"

Apologies. The links for versions are confusing me.
Link to Ursula's site for English version.

https://royal-magazin.de/grand-duchess-vladimirs-tiara-romanov-jewels/

Re: 1843, corrected to 1842, link in English

Posted by 992234177 <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=992234177' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 20, 2025, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Re: 1843, corrected to 1842, link in English"

Thank you very much everybody this is exactly what I was looking for. It’s all new to me. Thank you Nellie and, of course, to Ursula.

Daughters similar tiara

Posted by 992234177 <iframe src='https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/info/user=992234177' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 21, 2025, 8:48 am, in reply to "Re: 1843, corrected to 1842, link in English"

I wonder if this is the reason why Grand Duchess Marie, Duchess of Edinburgh and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha had this tiara, they look almost exactly the same and the other one was originally owned by her mother. Also she married in 1874. Could there have been a mix up about a tiara with pearl pendants being made for an Imperial wedding and the wrong Grand Duchess Marie was cited. Could this be where the story of the date came from.

« Back to index

1097

[ Royal Jewels of the World Message Board ]