Thank you, Beth1 and Nellie, for your contribution. Your opinion and mine partly differ, but as I am far from being sure about mine, we can only make educated guesses. I do not if we will ever see clearly in these ownership issues...
--Previous Message-- : : The Royal Collection has been described as a : collection of collections. : Most monarchs were collectors and those : collections have accumulated to become the : nucleus of the Royal Collection today. : (The Philatelic Collection is privately : owned by the Queen I believe.) : So that is the basis. : I believe that these days, official gifts go : to the Royal Collection, and any items : specifically designated to go to it are : included. : : I have long believed that the processes of : computer cataloguing over the last twenty to : thirty years have aided the business of : clarifying "ownerships". : : Royals have always owned private property, : and indeed, the catalogue for furniture for : the auction of Princess Margaret's property : was fascinating in the detail it showed of : various labels attached for previous owners. : : It is quite correct that the Royal : Collection has included private property in : exhibitions and publications, with : permission. : And further, an RCIN on an item on its : website does not "prove" ownership : by the Royal Collection. : : --Previous Message-- : Regarding the Royal Collection. : I think it is relevant to make a couple of : points. : I personally have no idea of precisely what : is considered part of the Royal Collection, : except for some major category of items - : even so, not all such items will form part : of the Royal Collection. I think there is a : great deal of public confusion about what is : in the Royal Collection. : I believe that the Royal Collection has : mounted exhibitions and published books on : items which are not strictly part of that : collection. For example, Roberts' book was : published by the Royal Collection : Publications. I believe that most of the : jewels mentioned in the book are private : property. : 1. The Royal Collection site makes it clear : that The Queen, as sovereign, holds items in : the Royal Collection in trust for her : successors and for the nation. HM The Queen : does not own these items as a private : individual. : : : http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/about/frequently-asked-questions : 2. As I understand matters, the paintings, : furniture, silver, gold plate and other : items in the Royal Collection have always : been considered as something owned and : passed from one monarch to the next. For : example, when Edward VIII abdicated, he did : not attempt to assert ownership of : furniture, paintings, silver etc in : Buckingham Palace or Windsor castle as his. : He did, however, assert his ownership of : Balmoral and Sandringham, and took : furniture, paintings, gemstones etc : considered to be his with him, and I have : never read of any dispute regarding those : items. : Much of the Royal Collection has been : acquired by individual monarchs and their : spouses with private money, especially after : the Crown Estates were given into the care : of the government at the start of each reign : in return for Civil List monies. I believe : that various monarch (and their spouses) : have indicated what should be private and : what should be part of the pool of royal : heirlooms. : My thinking is partially influenced by : having seen information in the auction : catalogue of Princess Margaret's : possessions. Some of the notes contained : information - that there were identification : notes on some items of furniture showing : that they belonged to her father and then to : her etc. To me that suggests that the royals : keep an account of what is considered : private property, which is theirs to : bequeath, give as a gift or sell, as they : wish. : 3 With regard to jewellery, I believe that : anything which is not considered as : belonging to the Crown is private property, : which can be disposed of freely, in the same : way as any private individual can sell, : donate, or bequeath their property. : For the government or others to suggest : otherwise would be a breach of fundamental : rights to private property under English : Common Law, a cornerstone of English rights. : If The Queen should make other dispositions : for private property in her possession, then : no doubt information will be forthcoming. By : this I mean if HM should put jewels into : something like a foundation. : 4. When The Queen said in the 1990s that she : would pay tax on her private income, I : believe the announcement left it open to : argue that items willed to her by her mother : or from her to her successor as monarch : could be subject to inheritance taxes and : that what we are told is the current : arrangement with the government was : instituted so that the royal inheritance was : not diminished. : 4. The present situation, where it is said : in the press that The Queen has lent people, : such as the Duchess of Cornwall, various : items of valuable jewellery is, I think, a : manifestation of the agreement with the : government, which is designed to ensure that : the dignity of the Crown can be upheld for : the nation. : 5. I know some will mention the issue of : valuable gifts given to Royals in the course : of their visits to other countries as a : representative of the UK. I think the : argument is that such gifts were not given : privately to the individual, but as a : representative of the UK, as was jewellery : given to Margaret Thatcher by one foreign : government. : 6 Needless to say, I am giving only my : opinion, and accept that there is : insufficient public information to make : anything more than an educated guess, but my : educated guess is that HM holds the vast : majority of her jewellery as private : property. : : : :
on October 9, 2014, 8:31 am, in reply to "