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    Re: here is my theory,,,: Norwegian/Swedish emerald tiara Archived Message

    Posted by Boris on March 19, 2012, 3:31 am, in reply to "Re: here is my theory,,,: Norwegian/Swedish emerald tiara"

    "for some reason Josefine now added
    : much better larger quality photo of Queen
    : Josephine..."

    Thank you Tamara for alerting me to the fact that Josefine edited her original post - unfortunately, there's no way to notice that from the 'outside'...
    Obviously, there doesn't seem to be any info unearthed about the 'unknown' tiara - in the newly added version of the photo, you can indeed make out seed pearls.

    As for the emerald tiara now with the Norwegian RF, I'm quite convinced of your theory too.

    --Previous Message--
    : Boris...I can clearly see that the
    : stones are surrounded by small seed
    : pearls...they definitely don't look like
    : diamonds... but its not so clear on the
    : tiara...you can see a lot of elements were
    : drawn on the photo.
    :
    : My guess on this unknown parure would be
    : that she inherited from her sister empress
    : Amelie (the one that people always talk
    : about)... this is why we only see her in her
    : later years with this set and what we
    : believe for the first time...
    :
    : The other emerald set that is now with
    : Norwegian family is another story...after my
    : research,at least I am convinced of my
    : theory just too many things match for it
    : not to be valid.
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    : --Previous Message--
    : Thank you for the additional info, Didier.
    : I posted a (very blurry) version of the
    : photo here:
    :
    :
    : http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/msg/1331893789.html
    :
    : The pendant necklace appears to be rather
    : grand for typical daywear jewelry though...
    : hard to tell if pearls or diamonds are
    : surrounding the colored stones, but
    : especially the necklace seems to be too
    : 'flat' for pearls.
    : Did you see the original in better quality?
    :
    :
    : --Previous Message--
    : Boris
    :
    : This late portrait of queen Josefina was
    : painted from a photography taken around
    : 1870. A more complete print of this
    : photography (better than that reproduced by
    : Göran Alm)is in the National Museum in
    : Stockholm.
    : If you take a close look, it seems she is
    : wearing a set of "daywear"
    : jewellery in colored stones with pearl
    : surround, rather than diamonds.
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    : --Previous Message--
    : Congratulations on your research and its
    : results, Tamara!
    :
    : I find the theory of a smaller tiara owned
    : by CP Josefina used to form the emerald
    : tiara which is now with the Norwegian RF
    : very plausible.
    : To go by the depiction of jewels in
    : paintings is always frustrating, but in this
    : case the motifs of the tiara shown in the
    : painting of young CP Josefina are simply too
    : exact a match to be dismissed.
    :
    : The unknown parure worn by Queen Josefina
    : remains a real mystery; Göran Alm rather
    : helplessly says that the photo session is
    : ‘the only occasion on which this tiara was
    : seen’, and in Tamara’s post, you can see
    : that its elements are very similar to the
    : motifs in the Norwegian tiara, but still
    : they are - in contrast to the motifs of
    : young Josefina’s small tiara – not a real
    : match… which is quite mind-boggling.
    : Again, we don’t even know if the colored
    : stones in Josefina’s unknown tiara are
    : actually emeralds.
    :
    : So the possible timeline would be this,
    : following Tamara’s theory:
    :
    : CP Josefina already had a small emerald
    : tiara. At one point, Queen Josefina
    : inherited her sister Empress Amélie of
    : Brazil’s Napoleonic emerald tiara, most
    : likely created by Paris jeweller Pabst, and
    : said to have belonged to Empress Joséphine.
    : (NOTE: What’s the original source for this
    : last information?)
    :
    : Josefina’s smaller tiara was used to create
    : additional pieces of a parure to go with
    : Empress Amélie’s large emerald tiara. Some
    : of these pieces were later used to modify
    : the tiara itself.
    : Queen Sofia of Sweden is the first one
    : photographed wearing the new tiara and the
    : grand emerald necklace with at least one of
    : the pendants from Josefina’s smaller tiara:
    : Proof that either Josefina broke her own
    : smaller tiara up, or Sofia did so after
    : being given both pieces..
    : (The unknown tiara might or might not have
    : been broken up to be merged with this new
    : tiara.)
    :
    : Considering that there are only three years
    : in-between Amélie’s death and Josefina’s
    : death, I would say it’s more likely that
    : Queen Sofia broke up her mother-in-law’s
    : smaller emerald tiara and made the changes.
    :
    : Next, Princess Ingeborg is given the tiara,
    : and either she or Crown Princess Märtha (do
    : we know for sure who it was?) altered the
    : tiara, using some of the palmette motifs to
    : replace the drop emeralds which are turned
    : into earrings, removing further motifs as
    : pendants from the grand necklace and
    : choosing to spread those pendants all over
    : her family - to the delight and horror of us
    : royal jewelry watchers...
    :
    :
    : --Previous Message--
    : Interesting theory, Tamara.
    :
    : I can´t see all the connections you see, but
    : you never know with paintings. They might be
    : very accurate, they may not.
    :
    : It is highly possible, however, that the
    : original parure had both a tiara and a
    : smaller (yet grand) comb. Many of the grand
    : Napoleonic parures had both pieces.
    : The painting of the young Josephine could
    : show the comb, while the painting of the old
    : Queen could show the tiara.
    :
    : On the other hand, Queen Josephine
    : (1807-1876) is said to have inherited the
    : emerald parure from her sister, Empress
    : Amalie of Brazil (1812-1873), after the
    : letters death.
    : If this is true, the painting of a young
    : Queen Josephine shows different gems, or
    : different emeralds.
    :
    : --Previous Message--
    : There are few similarities between Norwegian
    : tiara and the one that Queen Josephine is
    : wearing but they are not the same....
    :
    : Well, where should I begin...I hit my
    : archives and what ever books I could think
    : of that might have had the similar design
    : tiaras...of course initially I thought this
    : un-identifited Queen Josephine's tiara
    : (parure) was dead on close to tiara of Queen
    : Sonja today...
    :
    : 1. The swirly diamond elements
    : "wavy" at the base of each tiara
    : is Identical.
    : 2. If you remove all the large palmette
    : elements and move the 5 large elements close
    : to each other, you got Queen Sonja's emerald
    : tiara.
    : 3. From the same angle (after numerous
    : search for the same angle photo) I found
    : that the swirly elements between Palmette
    : are much "Narrower" on Queen
    : Josephine than the one on Queen Sonja's
    : tiara...
    : 4. The stones are more oval on QJ's tiara
    : than on Queen Sonja's tiara.
    :
    : I put little collage together to show you
    : visually what I am discussing...
    :
    :
    : In addition to this...I did a little
    : research because I was even more intrigued
    : after Baxter (Thank you Baxter for extra set
    : of eyes )pointed out in the old discussion
    : that young Josephine's photo with emeralds,
    : in her tiara, the diamond elements were
    : similar to the diamond elements in Norwegian
    : parure drops.
    :
    : We always wondered how josephine wore
    : necklace, brooch that is now with Queen
    : Sonja and not connecting the tiara that is
    : now with Queen Sonja as well with the whole
    : picture...
    :
    :
    :
    :
    : here is my theory...
    :
    :
    : The painting that we saw of Queen Josephine
    : at a very young age in a brooch, necklace,
    : earrings and a tiara was most likely hers at
    : that age...it could have been gift from her
    : parents (after all) or her husband...which
    : is not too far fetched idea...but what I
    : want to point out is that her TIARA on that
    : painting matches ALL the elements that were
    : in the parure as we saw on CP Margaret of
    : Sweden at British coronation..Here is what I
    : mean
    :
    : 1. The diamond elements (wavy pieces above
    : emerald drops) that were used on top of
    : drops for the necklace are present in the
    : tiara on the painting.
    : 2. the large emerald stones on the tiara,
    : match drops on the necklace and its 7 of
    : them (see collage)
    : 3. the palmette is IDENTICAL in design and
    : even the small square emerald that's under
    : each palmette (the way palmette shaped and
    : goes into the emerald stone)..and when I
    : mean Identical..I mean identical lol....I
    : have circled everything in different colors
    : in the collage, so you'll get a better
    : visual sense...
    :
    : Every element from the tiara in that
    : painting has been observed in the parure
    : that exists today with Queen Sonja...So my
    : logical conclusion, is that, Queen Josephine
    : ONLY inherited emerald Tiara from her sister
    : and NOT a parure as people thought
    : initially. So, after inheriting this Grand
    : tiara, she dismatles her smaller version
    : tiara (from the painting) and creates drops
    : to have Grand Parure. Please look at my
    : collage closely....
    :
    :
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